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Things through all the playtests I have not liked
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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6089649" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>Yes the trained sneaker is more concerned about where he is sneaking rather than who is sneaking. So for instance, if Grisendorf is sneaking in a brightly lit room, it may be very difficult for him to sneak. If Grisendorf is sneaking in a dark cave it is very easy. The sneak check only tells if the sneaker successfully hid in the terrain. Blarb on the other hand is not trained in sneaking and has a very low DEX. He is going to have an extreme time (if not impossible time) hiding in the lit room and may even have difficulty hiding in the dark cave.</p><p></p><p>The thing that feels different here is that the spotter is not opposing a pure skill roll. The spotters Arbon the keen and Shump one-eyed is opposing how hidden in the terrain both Grisendorf and Blarb are. In the brightly lit room it might be pretty easy for Arbon and Shump to spot either one. In the dark cave it might be nearly impossible to see, but Arbon the keen might be able to figure out where Blarb is.</p><p></p><p>Of course there could be modifiers to the spotting roll, I could see a rogue having a hide in shadows feature that gives spotters a penalty to seeing them. Things like invisibility and blindness would give a penalty to spot as well. In essence this is a surprise roll. So all the factors that come into a surprise roll would come into play here too.</p><p>Distance</p><p>Hidden/not hidden</p><p>Lit/shadows/dark (dark could be invisible and blind too)</p><p>Concealment/cover</p><p></p><p>Surprise rolls are the same as this spot roll concept. This just broadens to sneaking, and gets rid of the swingy nature of opposed rolls and kills the outlier problem in one fell swoop.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Keeping the math tight only mitigates one factor. The other one is the swingyness of opposed rolls. Again think of the example where spell DCs are opposed rolls. The caster casts a spell and rolls a 20 so the the DC is impossible to beat or the caster rolls a 1 and the DC is an autopass. Opposed rolls are not good, in every case, even the arm wrestle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6089649, member: 14506"] Yes the trained sneaker is more concerned about where he is sneaking rather than who is sneaking. So for instance, if Grisendorf is sneaking in a brightly lit room, it may be very difficult for him to sneak. If Grisendorf is sneaking in a dark cave it is very easy. The sneak check only tells if the sneaker successfully hid in the terrain. Blarb on the other hand is not trained in sneaking and has a very low DEX. He is going to have an extreme time (if not impossible time) hiding in the lit room and may even have difficulty hiding in the dark cave. The thing that feels different here is that the spotter is not opposing a pure skill roll. The spotters Arbon the keen and Shump one-eyed is opposing how hidden in the terrain both Grisendorf and Blarb are. In the brightly lit room it might be pretty easy for Arbon and Shump to spot either one. In the dark cave it might be nearly impossible to see, but Arbon the keen might be able to figure out where Blarb is. Of course there could be modifiers to the spotting roll, I could see a rogue having a hide in shadows feature that gives spotters a penalty to seeing them. Things like invisibility and blindness would give a penalty to spot as well. In essence this is a surprise roll. So all the factors that come into a surprise roll would come into play here too. Distance Hidden/not hidden Lit/shadows/dark (dark could be invisible and blind too) Concealment/cover Surprise rolls are the same as this spot roll concept. This just broadens to sneaking, and gets rid of the swingy nature of opposed rolls and kills the outlier problem in one fell swoop. Keeping the math tight only mitigates one factor. The other one is the swingyness of opposed rolls. Again think of the example where spell DCs are opposed rolls. The caster casts a spell and rolls a 20 so the the DC is impossible to beat or the caster rolls a 1 and the DC is an autopass. Opposed rolls are not good, in every case, even the arm wrestle. [/QUOTE]
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