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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Things wrong with 4e: Dragons
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5893832" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Now you're starting to see how my issues were linked to the monster philosophy of 4e. Dragons in 4e fail for me because they don't present a multidimensional antagonist. They're not a multidimensional antagonist because 4e decided that the only point of monsters was to fight them. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not true for me.</p><p></p><p>Creatures in D&D serve only one purpose: to provide the elements of an interesting game. </p><p></p><p>They can do this by being combat antagonists, but they can also do this by being enigmas, by being potential allies, by being in interesting areas, by being interesting characters, or in a hundred other ways.</p><p></p><p>Dragons specifically serve a few secondary purposes. For one, they are an iconic representation of the D&D brand -- right in the name. For another, they are quintessential villains. For a third, they are major powers in the worlds they exist in. </p><p></p><p>In 5e, I'd imagine that a dragon can serve as an antagonist on all 3 pillars. I'd also imagine that WotC could provide me with actual information for using them in ways other than as combat engines. </p><p></p><p>Combat is not enough for me. I need more. Out of the box. And WotC could provide it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've attached a PDF of a quick mock-up Kobold entry that's something vaguely like what I'd like the MM to give me. Add an illustration or two and a lair map, maybe some treasure information, maybe format it in a way that's a little easier to use, but basically, this.</p><p></p><p>FWIW, that's 11 stat blocks (6 of them traps, but still...) on 6 pages. 7-8 maybe if you add illos and a map. And then you probably wouldn't have separate entries for things like Dire Rats.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5893832, member: 2067"] Now you're starting to see how my issues were linked to the monster philosophy of 4e. Dragons in 4e fail for me because they don't present a multidimensional antagonist. They're not a multidimensional antagonist because 4e decided that the only point of monsters was to fight them. That's not true for me. Creatures in D&D serve only one purpose: to provide the elements of an interesting game. They can do this by being combat antagonists, but they can also do this by being enigmas, by being potential allies, by being in interesting areas, by being interesting characters, or in a hundred other ways. Dragons specifically serve a few secondary purposes. For one, they are an iconic representation of the D&D brand -- right in the name. For another, they are quintessential villains. For a third, they are major powers in the worlds they exist in. In 5e, I'd imagine that a dragon can serve as an antagonist on all 3 pillars. I'd also imagine that WotC could provide me with actual information for using them in ways other than as combat engines. Combat is not enough for me. I need more. Out of the box. And WotC could provide it. I've attached a PDF of a quick mock-up Kobold entry that's something vaguely like what I'd like the MM to give me. Add an illustration or two and a lair map, maybe some treasure information, maybe format it in a way that's a little easier to use, but basically, this. FWIW, that's 11 stat blocks (6 of them traps, but still...) on 6 pages. 7-8 maybe if you add illos and a map. And then you probably wouldn't have separate entries for things like Dire Rats. [/QUOTE]
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