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This is a directory of posters who think the sorcerer needs fixing
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<blockquote data-quote="Ketser" data-source="post: 7104293" data-attributes="member: 66805"><p>I feel that the class needs some adjustment and that it shouldn't come from adding more spells known, but rather by improving subclass options, metamagic, sorcery points and adding more sorcerer-only spells, the latter being perhaps more flexible than spells for other classes, but in the end the class should be more about the class features than spell or rather a nice mix of them.</p><p></p><p>The other option would be have an alternate revised sorcerer who perhaps works a bit more like the latest iteration of the mystic class.</p><p></p><p>But now a longer thought about the sorcerer. This not to bash the class, but rather to talk about the source of its issues.</p><p></p><p>Talking about the sorcerer generally i feel that the class has had issues from the beginning. Mainly of having a great concept, but suffering from mechanical issues. The original 3.0 sorcerer seemed less like a full class and more like an optional rule.* And in many ways it was that and option to play a "wizard," without the "stupid" fire-and-forget spell system. Most people who i saw playing sorcerers during 3.5 days played sorcerers not because the concept, but because the mechanics were far more convenient for them. I had also a few players who picked the spontaneous casting cleric option from the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana stuff, because they liked it more than "forgetting" spells after casting them. In addition the wizard class was bashed for being worse because of the less convenient looking spellcasting. The sorcerer became the class that was for people that didn't like vancian magic and sadly it was its only shtick. </p><p></p><p>The neo-vancian spellcasting appeared in earliest playtest packets of D&D next and it became highly popular. Initially only a cleric mechanic, it was soon extended to wizards and later to other spellcasting classes. Considering that half the people liked the old style and the other half wanted it to be purged with fire, it was clear that the neo-vancian style was perhaps the best compromise. WoTC probably realized it already back then that this was going to affect the sorcerer class. Initially, before the decision of making neo-vancian the main thing, they had some very different ideas for the class. The initial playtest sorcerer was a weird hybrid class, that used spell points and gained new abilities as they spent them on spells, becoming "less human." And while that idea didn't work out as they hoped, they had probably something closer to that in mind, when the neo-vancian for wizards was decided. But the every class casts spells differently idea was mostly dropped and it seemed that WoTC was ready to drop the class as a separate entity. In 1 or 2 packets the mage class appeared, which attempted to handle the sorcerer, warlock and wizards as its subclasses, that would still have had arcane school, origin and patron options. WoTC dropped the idea, basically admitting that having a class whose subclasses had subclasses became to messy and probably got a lot feedback noting that people wanted those as separate classes. So in the end the still needed to have a separate sorcerer class and i feel that what ultimately happened with it, but also with the ranger and they weren't sure how to go with the class and just ran out of time.</p><p></p><p>So we are now here with the sorcerer, whose original shtick does no longer mean anything. The shtick(s) that should become more important are the inborn talent and/or heritage ones, through better class and subclass features. More flexible handling of limited about of spells can also fit there.</p><p></p><p>Also speaking of innate talent, an actual arcane talent origin would be nice.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ketser, post: 7104293, member: 66805"] I feel that the class needs some adjustment and that it shouldn't come from adding more spells known, but rather by improving subclass options, metamagic, sorcery points and adding more sorcerer-only spells, the latter being perhaps more flexible than spells for other classes, but in the end the class should be more about the class features than spell or rather a nice mix of them. The other option would be have an alternate revised sorcerer who perhaps works a bit more like the latest iteration of the mystic class. But now a longer thought about the sorcerer. This not to bash the class, but rather to talk about the source of its issues. Talking about the sorcerer generally i feel that the class has had issues from the beginning. Mainly of having a great concept, but suffering from mechanical issues. The original 3.0 sorcerer seemed less like a full class and more like an optional rule.* And in many ways it was that and option to play a "wizard," without the "stupid" fire-and-forget spell system. Most people who i saw playing sorcerers during 3.5 days played sorcerers not because the concept, but because the mechanics were far more convenient for them. I had also a few players who picked the spontaneous casting cleric option from the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana stuff, because they liked it more than "forgetting" spells after casting them. In addition the wizard class was bashed for being worse because of the less convenient looking spellcasting. The sorcerer became the class that was for people that didn't like vancian magic and sadly it was its only shtick. The neo-vancian spellcasting appeared in earliest playtest packets of D&D next and it became highly popular. Initially only a cleric mechanic, it was soon extended to wizards and later to other spellcasting classes. Considering that half the people liked the old style and the other half wanted it to be purged with fire, it was clear that the neo-vancian style was perhaps the best compromise. WoTC probably realized it already back then that this was going to affect the sorcerer class. Initially, before the decision of making neo-vancian the main thing, they had some very different ideas for the class. The initial playtest sorcerer was a weird hybrid class, that used spell points and gained new abilities as they spent them on spells, becoming "less human." And while that idea didn't work out as they hoped, they had probably something closer to that in mind, when the neo-vancian for wizards was decided. But the every class casts spells differently idea was mostly dropped and it seemed that WoTC was ready to drop the class as a separate entity. In 1 or 2 packets the mage class appeared, which attempted to handle the sorcerer, warlock and wizards as its subclasses, that would still have had arcane school, origin and patron options. WoTC dropped the idea, basically admitting that having a class whose subclasses had subclasses became to messy and probably got a lot feedback noting that people wanted those as separate classes. So in the end the still needed to have a separate sorcerer class and i feel that what ultimately happened with it, but also with the ranger and they weren't sure how to go with the class and just ran out of time. So we are now here with the sorcerer, whose original shtick does no longer mean anything. The shtick(s) that should become more important are the inborn talent and/or heritage ones, through better class and subclass features. More flexible handling of limited about of spells can also fit there. Also speaking of innate talent, an actual arcane talent origin would be nice. [/QUOTE]
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