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<blockquote data-quote="VinylTap" data-source="post: 6035158" data-attributes="member: 6697217"><p>I'm really not trying to make value judgements on 4th or 5th or anything else. You guys love your game and want to continue loving it. I think that's great. 4th is a great game as were a lot of the previous DND products. People are right, my 4th experience is pretty limited, but I'm not trying to slam it, merely isolate differences so people have a more common point of reference to argue/discuss it. There's obviously no way to play a RPG "properly" but within the realms of RAW, we can, at the very least, distill variances in pattern, direction and emphasis. Discussions involving house rules etc are pretty meaningless-- that's up to you and your group.</p><p></p><p>I feel like a lot of the "RPG experience", in general, can be difficult to articulate well. When I was doing research on a system, to start with some friends, I looked at a lot of them. It was quite a bit after the 3.5 >> 4th transition, but a lot of the resentment was still there in the 3.5 community, and a lot of it was hard to understand coming from an outsider with limited PNP RPG experience. </p><p></p><p>Trying to get at exactly "why" the experiences between 3.5 > 4th was different, why it stirred up so much resentment and what was actually going on as far as game mechanics were concerned.... that was much more difficult to figure out. The sources I looked often just couldn't articulate it, it was mostly just a lot of frustration and nerd rage. What was so different between systems? And just why did so many prefer the old mechanics to the new?</p><p></p><p>After a lot of research (most of the best coming from this board) I was beginning see why WOTC made the changes they did, and how those change affected the meta-game. 3.5 and 4th look pretty similar aesthetically, but I think the meta-games are objectionably different. These differences can be obscured through house rules and other changes, but from a RAW perspective, its hard to argue 4th wasn't a new direction for the game. </p><p></p><p>I really don't think the 'Core DND next" rules will have a lot to offer 4th ed. enthusiasts. It takes the focus off a "structured limited combat system" and pulls it back more towards an open/mailable system that's pretty unsuited for the level of tactical interaction that 4th has traditionally encouraged. WOTC has something in mind for that type of play, but its going to come from an extended module, not from anything within the core system. Ripping every Next update apart looking for phantoms of 4th is pretty futile, you're not going find what you're looking for-- its a different game. </p><p></p><p>IMHO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VinylTap, post: 6035158, member: 6697217"] I'm really not trying to make value judgements on 4th or 5th or anything else. You guys love your game and want to continue loving it. I think that's great. 4th is a great game as were a lot of the previous DND products. People are right, my 4th experience is pretty limited, but I'm not trying to slam it, merely isolate differences so people have a more common point of reference to argue/discuss it. There's obviously no way to play a RPG "properly" but within the realms of RAW, we can, at the very least, distill variances in pattern, direction and emphasis. Discussions involving house rules etc are pretty meaningless-- that's up to you and your group. I feel like a lot of the "RPG experience", in general, can be difficult to articulate well. When I was doing research on a system, to start with some friends, I looked at a lot of them. It was quite a bit after the 3.5 >> 4th transition, but a lot of the resentment was still there in the 3.5 community, and a lot of it was hard to understand coming from an outsider with limited PNP RPG experience. Trying to get at exactly "why" the experiences between 3.5 > 4th was different, why it stirred up so much resentment and what was actually going on as far as game mechanics were concerned.... that was much more difficult to figure out. The sources I looked often just couldn't articulate it, it was mostly just a lot of frustration and nerd rage. What was so different between systems? And just why did so many prefer the old mechanics to the new? After a lot of research (most of the best coming from this board) I was beginning see why WOTC made the changes they did, and how those change affected the meta-game. 3.5 and 4th look pretty similar aesthetically, but I think the meta-games are objectionably different. These differences can be obscured through house rules and other changes, but from a RAW perspective, its hard to argue 4th wasn't a new direction for the game. I really don't think the 'Core DND next" rules will have a lot to offer 4th ed. enthusiasts. It takes the focus off a "structured limited combat system" and pulls it back more towards an open/mailable system that's pretty unsuited for the level of tactical interaction that 4th has traditionally encouraged. WOTC has something in mind for that type of play, but its going to come from an extended module, not from anything within the core system. Ripping every Next update apart looking for phantoms of 4th is pretty futile, you're not going find what you're looking for-- its a different game. IMHO. [/QUOTE]
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