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Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6859353" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>[MENTION=6777737]Bacon Bits[/MENTION], in my view notes for a skill challenge in a published module have to be treated in the same way as the tactical notes for a combat encounter: they are guidelines to help a GM who is otherwise unsure about how to adjudicate the fiction.</p><p></p><p>The basic instructions in the DMG (p 74) are that "You describe the environment, listen to the players’ responses, let them make their skill checks, and narrate the results." The idea of <em>narrating results</em> is elaborate upon in the DMG2 (p 83): "Each skill check in a challenge should . . . <em>ntroduce a new option . . . change the situation . . . [or] grant the players a tangible consequence". (Some people take the view that the DMG2 was a correction or alteration. To me, it was clear what "narrating the results" meant before the DMG2 was published, perhaps because I was familiar with the skill challenge idea from other, earlier RPGs with similar mechanical systems.)</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I don't doubt that a table where skill challenges are run just as a series of rolls, ignoring the step of narrating the results, and hence reframing the fiction for the ensuing checks, will have a boring time of it.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>On some of the other matters you raise:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>Nonsensical results</strong>: if a PC cuts off an orc's head, but the orc still has 6 hp left, that's <em>nonsensical</em>! Answer: in general, the PC hasn't cut off the orc's head until it is reduced to zero hp.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>If for some reason the whole combat framing becomes irrelevant - say a tidal wave is conjured and washes everyone away - then we deem the combat over even though the orc hadn't been reduced to zero hp. A skill challenge might be similarly obviated.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>Die rolls</strong>: if a player declares an action that is automatically successful, then no roll is needed. In the DMG and the DMG2, the canonical examples of such actions are rituals, but other possibilities are obviously possible. (Likewise in combat: if I sneak up behind the guard and don't fumble my garrote, then presumably the guard is dead with no need to roll an attack die.)</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>Bonus XP</strong>: Whatever happens - success or failure - the players will earn more XP, because (unless the campaign comes to an end) the GM will frame them into more encounters.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>To my mind, the real problem with the structure of "fail the challenge and having a random combat encounter" is that the penalty for failure is boredom. 4e is quite good at barracking for "fail forward", but not all that good at giving robust practical examples. That's why I take a lot of my 4e GMing advice from Luke Crane's Adventure Burner for Burning Wheel and other non-D&D books!</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6859353, member: 42582"] [MENTION=6777737]Bacon Bits[/MENTION], in my view notes for a skill challenge in a published module have to be treated in the same way as the tactical notes for a combat encounter: they are guidelines to help a GM who is otherwise unsure about how to adjudicate the fiction. The basic instructions in the DMG (p 74) are that "You describe the environment, listen to the players’ responses, let them make their skill checks, and narrate the results." The idea of [I]narrating results[/I] is elaborate upon in the DMG2 (p 83): "Each skill check in a challenge should . . . [i]ntroduce a new option . . . change the situation . . . [or] grant the players a tangible consequence". (Some people take the view that the DMG2 was a correction or alteration. To me, it was clear what "narrating the results" meant before the DMG2 was published, perhaps because I was familiar with the skill challenge idea from other, earlier RPGs with similar mechanical systems.) I don't doubt that a table where skill challenges are run just as a series of rolls, ignoring the step of narrating the results, and hence reframing the fiction for the ensuing checks, will have a boring time of it. On some of the other matters you raise: [B]Nonsensical results[/B]: if a PC cuts off an orc's head, but the orc still has 6 hp left, that's [I]nonsensical[/I]! Answer: in general, the PC hasn't cut off the orc's head until it is reduced to zero hp. If for some reason the whole combat framing becomes irrelevant - say a tidal wave is conjured and washes everyone away - then we deem the combat over even though the orc hadn't been reduced to zero hp. A skill challenge might be similarly obviated. [B]Die rolls[/B]: if a player declares an action that is automatically successful, then no roll is needed. In the DMG and the DMG2, the canonical examples of such actions are rituals, but other possibilities are obviously possible. (Likewise in combat: if I sneak up behind the guard and don't fumble my garrote, then presumably the guard is dead with no need to roll an attack die.) [B]Bonus XP[/B]: Whatever happens - success or failure - the players will earn more XP, because (unless the campaign comes to an end) the GM will frame them into more encounters. To my mind, the real problem with the structure of "fail the challenge and having a random combat encounter" is that the penalty for failure is boredom. 4e is quite good at barracking for "fail forward", but not all that good at giving robust practical examples. That's why I take a lot of my 4e GMing advice from Luke Crane's Adventure Burner for Burning Wheel and other non-D&D books![/i] [/QUOTE]
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