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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Thoughts on Eldritch Blast options for Warlock
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<blockquote data-quote="Tessarael" data-source="post: 8954454" data-attributes="member: 12909"><p>Firstly, thanks WanderingMystic for the detailed discussion and analysis. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>As you mentioned, Hex is explicitly listed in A5E tools, <a href="https://a5e.tools/spell/hex" target="_blank">Hex | Level Up</a>. As an alternative to Hex, there is the Warlock archetype curse ability which scales to higher additional damage per hit at higher Warlock levels but can only be used once per short rest. Permitting Hex doesn't break anything, as the resulting damage output for Warlock is very similar to 5E D&D. I don't see why it would be considered broken, given that Hex requires concentration so you're missing out on other concentration spell alternatives. I do see the motivation for making Hex a class feature rather than a spell, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was indeed design intent, but in which case I'd ask them to correct it and omit on a5e.tools. However, note that by not permitting the Hex spell, you are moderately reducing the damage output of Warlocks that don't take the archetype curse feature.</p><p></p><p>There are a number of 5E D&D spells missing from A5E, and in many cases it is not clear why they would be a problem other than them not being in the SRD (e.g., due to being in a book like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything). In a few cases it is fairly clear that it is intentional, such as Hellish Rebuke having been clearly replaced by the Arcane Riposte spell and the Eldritch Riposte invocation for Warlock. But either way, I have yet to see examples where permitting 5E D&D spells with A5E would break anything - they're quite compatible, though the A5E version should be used when it exists.</p><p></p><p>Regarding Eldritch Whip, you are correct though we should factor in the chance of completely missing and not getting that bonus damage:</p><p></p><p><strong>Eldritch Whip at 5th level:</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With Hex: 2x (d6+ d6 Hex + 4 ability modifier from Agonizing Blast) x 0.6 = <strong>13.2</strong> average; +6.6 temporary HP and 3.3x(1-0.4x0.4)=2.8 extra damage next round</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Without: 2x (d6 + 4 ability modifier from Agonizing Blast) x 0.6 = <strong>9.0</strong> average; +4.5 temporary HP and 2.25x(1-0.4x0.4)=1.9 extra damage next round</li> </ul><p>So I agree that makes Eldritch Whip more competitive, and it still gives me headaches as to what are the better options to take for Eldritch Blast. If you take Pact of the Blade, at least for damage output, I don't think that there's the need to take Eldritch Whip, whether or not you have a Warlock who wants to wade into melee. I think the main reason for Eldritch Whip is for when you want some additional temporary HP.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tessarael, post: 8954454, member: 12909"] Firstly, thanks WanderingMystic for the detailed discussion and analysis. :) As you mentioned, Hex is explicitly listed in A5E tools, [URL="https://a5e.tools/spell/hex"]Hex | Level Up[/URL]. As an alternative to Hex, there is the Warlock archetype curse ability which scales to higher additional damage per hit at higher Warlock levels but can only be used once per short rest. Permitting Hex doesn't break anything, as the resulting damage output for Warlock is very similar to 5E D&D. I don't see why it would be considered broken, given that Hex requires concentration so you're missing out on other concentration spell alternatives. I do see the motivation for making Hex a class feature rather than a spell, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was indeed design intent, but in which case I'd ask them to correct it and omit on a5e.tools. However, note that by not permitting the Hex spell, you are moderately reducing the damage output of Warlocks that don't take the archetype curse feature. There are a number of 5E D&D spells missing from A5E, and in many cases it is not clear why they would be a problem other than them not being in the SRD (e.g., due to being in a book like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything). In a few cases it is fairly clear that it is intentional, such as Hellish Rebuke having been clearly replaced by the Arcane Riposte spell and the Eldritch Riposte invocation for Warlock. But either way, I have yet to see examples where permitting 5E D&D spells with A5E would break anything - they're quite compatible, though the A5E version should be used when it exists. Regarding Eldritch Whip, you are correct though we should factor in the chance of completely missing and not getting that bonus damage: [B]Eldritch Whip at 5th level:[/B] [LIST] [*]With Hex: 2x (d6+ d6 Hex + 4 ability modifier from Agonizing Blast) x 0.6 = [B]13.2[/B] average; +6.6 temporary HP and 3.3x(1-0.4x0.4)=2.8 extra damage next round [*]Without: 2x (d6 + 4 ability modifier from Agonizing Blast) x 0.6 = [B]9.0[/B] average; +4.5 temporary HP and 2.25x(1-0.4x0.4)=1.9 extra damage next round [/LIST] So I agree that makes Eldritch Whip more competitive, and it still gives me headaches as to what are the better options to take for Eldritch Blast. If you take Pact of the Blade, at least for damage output, I don't think that there's the need to take Eldritch Whip, whether or not you have a Warlock who wants to wade into melee. I think the main reason for Eldritch Whip is for when you want some additional temporary HP. [/QUOTE]
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