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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Tiers - The Other Kind of Tiers
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7565992" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>In 5e it isn't nearly as stratified and clear cut. There's no classes that are outside the standard distribution for all subclasses and all tiers. There are some over average and below average, again depending on tier and subclass. but they all can adventure together. And multiclassing can cover a multitude of sins, but also you need to be careful not to shoot yourself accidentially in the foot and is not the Ultimate Path to Power(tm) like it was back in 3.5.</p><p></p><p>One of the big differences is Concentration, which means that a caster can't self-buff to be better than someone who is specialized at something.</p><p></p><p>Off the top of my head, here's a ranking. I'm sure some will disagree - and that's health and correct - so much depends on your party synergy, and the classes really are grouped closer in terms of balance.</p><p></p><p>Often front side of the power curve:</p><p>Pure casters above tier 1. </p><p>Paladin. </p><p>Barbarian, though petering out some at the highest tiers. (Combat)</p><p>Fighter.</p><p>Rogue & Ranger (out of combat)</p><p></p><p>All over the place depending on build:</p><p>Warlock</p><p></p><p>Often on the back side of the power curve:</p><p>Rogue (combat)</p><p>Ranger (combat)</p><p>Monk</p><p>Barbarian, Fighter (out-of-combat)</p><p></p><p>But all of those shift back and forth into each other's territory. A list is really subjective.</p><p></p><p>Actually behind the curve:</p><p>Monk (Way of the Four Elements)</p><p>Ranger (Beastmaster) after tier 1.</p><p></p><p>All of that said, there is a non-class division that I can give you some pretty hard power tiers on. It's DM variation on combats per day. If they give 1-4 regularly, then classes primarily with long-rest recharge mechanics will be more powerful. If they give 5+ a day, it's well balanced. (I don't know a single DM who regularly goes far enough beyond that primary at-will becomes the strongest tier just from this.) Short rest primary like the warlock are a bit orthogonal to it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7565992, member: 20564"] In 5e it isn't nearly as stratified and clear cut. There's no classes that are outside the standard distribution for all subclasses and all tiers. There are some over average and below average, again depending on tier and subclass. but they all can adventure together. And multiclassing can cover a multitude of sins, but also you need to be careful not to shoot yourself accidentially in the foot and is not the Ultimate Path to Power(tm) like it was back in 3.5. One of the big differences is Concentration, which means that a caster can't self-buff to be better than someone who is specialized at something. Off the top of my head, here's a ranking. I'm sure some will disagree - and that's health and correct - so much depends on your party synergy, and the classes really are grouped closer in terms of balance. Often front side of the power curve: Pure casters above tier 1. Paladin. Barbarian, though petering out some at the highest tiers. (Combat) Fighter. Rogue & Ranger (out of combat) All over the place depending on build: Warlock Often on the back side of the power curve: Rogue (combat) Ranger (combat) Monk Barbarian, Fighter (out-of-combat) But all of those shift back and forth into each other's territory. A list is really subjective. Actually behind the curve: Monk (Way of the Four Elements) Ranger (Beastmaster) after tier 1. All of that said, there is a non-class division that I can give you some pretty hard power tiers on. It's DM variation on combats per day. If they give 1-4 regularly, then classes primarily with long-rest recharge mechanics will be more powerful. If they give 5+ a day, it's well balanced. (I don't know a single DM who regularly goes far enough beyond that primary at-will becomes the strongest tier just from this.) Short rest primary like the warlock are a bit orthogonal to it. [/QUOTE]
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