Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Tiers - The Other Kind of Tiers
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7566510" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>If they seem that way on even a casual skim, maybe. </p><p></p><p> 5e is very much a backwards-looking edition, it seeks to fundamentally evoke the classic game. The classic game wasn't "balanced" unless the DM wanted to put some work into making it balanced, whether re-writing the mechanics, or directly intervening in play. 5e leaves the DM the same leeway.</p><p></p><p>You can sort through the classes, judge their relative 'RAW' versatility/power by the criteria of the 3.5 Tiers, and they don't shake out all that differently. </p><p>If there were a 3.5 class that cast the way 5e neo-Vancian casters do (prepping from many known spells, then casting spontaneously), it'd've been "Tier 0" for sure. If more 3.5-levels-of-broken spells had remained in 5e, likewise. So, though even more flexible in system of casting, the usual Tier 1 suspects stay Tier 1. </p><p>That third-sting full caster of 3.5, the Bard, has risen dramatically in stature. </p><p>There are no purely non-casting classes, so there's a handful of sub-classes that fall to a lower tier, if you break them out.</p><p></p><p>[sblock="Here's where the 5e PH classes were in 3.5"]</p><p>Tier 1: Wizard, Cleric, Druid</p><p></p><p>Tier 2: Sorcerer</p><p></p><p>Tier 3: Bard, Ranger (Wildshape variant),</p><p></p><p>Tier 4: Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Ranger, Fighter (Zhentarium variant) </p><p></p><p>Tier 5: Fighter, Monk, Paladin</p><p></p><p>Tier 6: </p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>[sblock="Here's how they might be ranked in 5e"]</p><p>Tier 1: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard</p><p></p><p>Tier 2: Sorcerer, Warlock</p><p></p><p>Tier 3: Fighter (EK), Monk (Shadow), Paladin, Ranger, Rogue (AT)</p><p></p><p>Tier 4: Fighter (BM), Monk (OH/4E), Ranger (Beastmaster), Rogue (Assassin/Thief)</p><p></p><p>Tier 5: Barbarian, Fighter (Champion) </p><p></p><p>Tier 6: </p><p></p><p>(no, there's no ranking w/in each Tier, that's just alphabetical.)</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>But, it's not like the Player <s>empowering</s> Entitlement of sytemically balanced 4e AEDU or 3.x Iron Rule of RaW. </p><p>5e it's really up to the DM: how he rules, what challenges he throws, what items he drops, where he applies pressure. RAW & System Mastery are largely moot. If you want to build a character that dominates play, build whatever you want - and game the DM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7566510, member: 996"] If they seem that way on even a casual skim, maybe. 5e is very much a backwards-looking edition, it seeks to fundamentally evoke the classic game. The classic game wasn't "balanced" unless the DM wanted to put some work into making it balanced, whether re-writing the mechanics, or directly intervening in play. 5e leaves the DM the same leeway. You can sort through the classes, judge their relative 'RAW' versatility/power by the criteria of the 3.5 Tiers, and they don't shake out all that differently. If there were a 3.5 class that cast the way 5e neo-Vancian casters do (prepping from many known spells, then casting spontaneously), it'd've been "Tier 0" for sure. If more 3.5-levels-of-broken spells had remained in 5e, likewise. So, though even more flexible in system of casting, the usual Tier 1 suspects stay Tier 1. That third-sting full caster of 3.5, the Bard, has risen dramatically in stature. There are no purely non-casting classes, so there's a handful of sub-classes that fall to a lower tier, if you break them out. [sblock="Here's where the 5e PH classes were in 3.5"] Tier 1: Wizard, Cleric, Druid Tier 2: Sorcerer Tier 3: Bard, Ranger (Wildshape variant), Tier 4: Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Ranger, Fighter (Zhentarium variant) Tier 5: Fighter, Monk, Paladin Tier 6: [/sblock] [sblock="Here's how they might be ranked in 5e"] Tier 1: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard Tier 2: Sorcerer, Warlock Tier 3: Fighter (EK), Monk (Shadow), Paladin, Ranger, Rogue (AT) Tier 4: Fighter (BM), Monk (OH/4E), Ranger (Beastmaster), Rogue (Assassin/Thief) Tier 5: Barbarian, Fighter (Champion) Tier 6: (no, there's no ranking w/in each Tier, that's just alphabetical.) [/sblock] But, it's not like the Player [s]empowering[/s] Entitlement of sytemically balanced 4e AEDU or 3.x Iron Rule of RaW. 5e it's really up to the DM: how he rules, what challenges he throws, what items he drops, where he applies pressure. RAW & System Mastery are largely moot. If you want to build a character that dominates play, build whatever you want - and game the DM. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Tiers - The Other Kind of Tiers
Top