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To much 5th edition content?
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8511519" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>IMO that isn't bloat, that is <em>complexity</em>. AD&D was a much more complex beast in most ways than 5E, so of course there will be more content to reflect that.</p><p></p><p>If you go by page count, the the PHB, DMG, MM, and UA in 1E compared to PHB, DMG, MM, and XGtE for 5E, 5E is much larger: about 615 vs. 1180 or so. So, for those 4 books, 5E has a page count over 90% than 1E. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /></p><p></p><p>And FWIW, the only issue I had with UA is most copies completely fell apart! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> I am lucky I have one of the few that never did... <em>knock on wood.</em> It is also one of the books in 1E that I really liked as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, there are very few I've run across...</p><p></p><p></p><p>IMO it has started, but I agree only just. You might have it in the starting gate, I have it just out of the gate.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll reserve judgement on if I think this is a good move or not. It seems like it would limit the spellcasting ability severely, and even if other spells in the stat blocks weren't used a lot, I preferred having the complete list available.</p><p></p><p>IME most DMs are pretty familiar with the bulk of spells in monster stat blocks currently. If you have time you can always review them before hand and if not taking a moment to look up a spell doesn't slow things down very much.</p><p></p><p>Maybe when I get a chance to see several examples, I won't mind it, but for now I am waiting to see.</p><p></p><p></p><p>While I can see your point, I feel the opposite (of course, right? who saw <em>that</em> coming... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ).</p><p></p><p>Every new subclass means more features to make certain are balanced to the current ones and for the game I want to run. I am not saying I wouldn't mind <em>some</em> new ones, especially considering the requests people have made that have yet to be met. </p><p></p><p>I agree spells fall under the same issue, but IMO are much easier to balance and implement.</p><p></p><p>Regardless, this has already become a "yes bloat (or starting bloat) vs. no bloat" thing. It is all a matter of opinion and perspectives. For me, there's bloat beginning (probably with Tasha's). For other, no bloat. I doubt I'll buy anything new for 5E unless it addresses the issues I want to see tackled (which I doubt will happen). For others, they will buy just about every bit of something for 5E WotC puts out. If it makes them happy (and you know it will make WotC happy), it is their money so more power to them.</p><p></p><p>Finally, the issue is not also whether prior editions reach bloat or not, it is if <em>an individual</em> feels 5E is getting there, already there, or not even close. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8511519, member: 6987520"] IMO that isn't bloat, that is [I]complexity[/I]. AD&D was a much more complex beast in most ways than 5E, so of course there will be more content to reflect that. If you go by page count, the the PHB, DMG, MM, and UA in 1E compared to PHB, DMG, MM, and XGtE for 5E, 5E is much larger: about 615 vs. 1180 or so. So, for those 4 books, 5E has a page count over 90% than 1E. 🤷♂️ And FWIW, the only issue I had with UA is most copies completely fell apart! :) I am lucky I have one of the few that never did... [I]knock on wood.[/I] It is also one of the books in 1E that I really liked as well. True, there are very few I've run across... IMO it has started, but I agree only just. You might have it in the starting gate, I have it just out of the gate. I'll reserve judgement on if I think this is a good move or not. It seems like it would limit the spellcasting ability severely, and even if other spells in the stat blocks weren't used a lot, I preferred having the complete list available. IME most DMs are pretty familiar with the bulk of spells in monster stat blocks currently. If you have time you can always review them before hand and if not taking a moment to look up a spell doesn't slow things down very much. Maybe when I get a chance to see several examples, I won't mind it, but for now I am waiting to see. While I can see your point, I feel the opposite (of course, right? who saw [I]that[/I] coming... ;) ). Every new subclass means more features to make certain are balanced to the current ones and for the game I want to run. I am not saying I wouldn't mind [I]some[/I] new ones, especially considering the requests people have made that have yet to be met. I agree spells fall under the same issue, but IMO are much easier to balance and implement. Regardless, this has already become a "yes bloat (or starting bloat) vs. no bloat" thing. It is all a matter of opinion and perspectives. For me, there's bloat beginning (probably with Tasha's). For other, no bloat. I doubt I'll buy anything new for 5E unless it addresses the issues I want to see tackled (which I doubt will happen). For others, they will buy just about every bit of something for 5E WotC puts out. If it makes them happy (and you know it will make WotC happy), it is their money so more power to them. Finally, the issue is not also whether prior editions reach bloat or not, it is if [I]an individual[/I] feels 5E is getting there, already there, or not even close. 🤷♂️ [/QUOTE]
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