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[Tome of Battle] New Maneuvers
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4874771" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Pretty cool, overall. I looked at all of them for a bit, and every discipline seems to have some I'd call underpowered and overpowered, and a few could use clarifications.</p><p></p><p>I'll actually start with White Raven for comments, since it has the maneuver that I think needs the most changes / I have the most to say about.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In general: I was hoping for at least a few more WR maneuvers that would be of decent benefit to a lone character. Mostly as a DM, I like to have bad guys focused in WR, but find it annoying that they always have to have fairly tough allies with them to not become largely useless. I know WR is about teamwork, but there are at least a few things in there that aren't related to that (WR Hammer, for ex.) and some things that are good enough on the character alone, even if he has no allies to use it as well (leading the charge stance, for ex.). I like that you added some use of the key skill, it'd be nice if you did that for ALL the disciplines that as written have no use for the key skill.</p><p></p><p>Adrenaline Surge: Mostly good, see no real reason why to exclude the initiator, but whatever. You should specify that those affected are immune to becoming fatigued or exhausted for the duration, which was my impression on reading it. Or otherwise clarify what happens in that situation.</p><p></p><p>Call to Arms: Cool. Maybe even a little powerful for its level. This doesn't ruin feinting and other things beyond surprise or being given the flatfooted condition from other maneuvers, etc..., right?</p><p></p><p>Call to Glory: Oh boy...</p><p>I really, really like this idea. But you made it entirely too complicated and restrictive to the point of being prohibitive to ever learn/ready. Range should just say 30 ft instead of see text. Area should be changed to effect or target and/or say all allies within 30 ft, or "all allies within 30 ft when initiated" if they can move beyond that range after you use it.The one round initiation time,the fact it can be interrupted, the fact you need to maintain concentration on it or else it ends, and the fact the other maneuver has to be another one you have readied/granted is already limiting enough, IMO.</p><p>I think you should change the concentration check to a diplomacy check. It's a maneuver, at worst it's a Su ability, still not spell-like. And Crusaders don't even get concentration as a class skill! You've made this maneuver useless to them! It doesn't have to be jarring. Just explain that it's difficult to recite the correct words while you're getting pummeled or whatever, to justify using diplomacy for DCs when struck. Bards can take a feat to use perform to retain concentration spells, not much more of a leap...</p><p>I don't think it's so potent as to warrant an xp cost like making a script. It's already fairly limited and contained in use as you set it up. And by the time you're level 15+, a level 1-3 maneuver shouldn't be that big of a deal. Limit it to one ally per initiator level, 1 / 2 IL, lessen the radius, or bump it to level 9 if you're really worried. On the same note, why the special rules about not re-readying it? They're just so awkward and unnecessary. Obviously if you cease taking standard actions, anyone who hasn't used it loses it. I don't see a problem with refreshing maneuvers and using it again. You're a high level character using up most of his actions for the length of the combat just to give everyone else a weak maneuver to use...not a big deal.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Charge Through the Crowd: Seems really weak and situational for a stance. Might work better as a boost. Alternatively, add in some other nice things, like being able to make a single turn of up to 90 degrees during a charge (there's a feat and skill trick to do this already, doesn't seem unbalanced to include in the stance).</p><p></p><p>General's Aid: If it weren't for the tiny radius, I'd be worried it's too strong at character level 3 compared to inspire courage. As it is, should be fine.</p><p></p><p>Inspiring Stature: I think this should be a higher level stance, maybe 5th level. Group fear immunity alone is insane at ECL 5, the awesome diplomacy for will saves thing (which I like!) puts it even more over the top. It might even be worthwhile as a level 8 stance, but I don't think it needs to be that high.</p><p></p><p>Rally the Legion: I have no idea about this one. The half cha duration is kinda wonky, and you're potentially getting a lot out of only a level 2 maneuver. I think this should be an untyped kind of maneuver instead of a boost. Not all maneuvers are strikes, boosts, counters, or stances.</p><p></p><p>Taken Under the Wind: Good. Only "issue" is it doesn't seem that useful to a PC, but for a low level NPC general fighting in mass combat, not bad potentially.</p><p></p><p>White Raven Retribution: No comment, good as written.</p><p></p><p></p><p>WR could use a few more mid-level maneuvers other than the stances. There was a level 6 and a level 8 maneuver. The rest were all level 1 or 2, or were a stance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 4874771, member: 35909"] Pretty cool, overall. I looked at all of them for a bit, and every discipline seems to have some I'd call underpowered and overpowered, and a few could use clarifications. I'll actually start with White Raven for comments, since it has the maneuver that I think needs the most changes / I have the most to say about. In general: I was hoping for at least a few more WR maneuvers that would be of decent benefit to a lone character. Mostly as a DM, I like to have bad guys focused in WR, but find it annoying that they always have to have fairly tough allies with them to not become largely useless. I know WR is about teamwork, but there are at least a few things in there that aren't related to that (WR Hammer, for ex.) and some things that are good enough on the character alone, even if he has no allies to use it as well (leading the charge stance, for ex.). I like that you added some use of the key skill, it'd be nice if you did that for ALL the disciplines that as written have no use for the key skill. Adrenaline Surge: Mostly good, see no real reason why to exclude the initiator, but whatever. You should specify that those affected are immune to becoming fatigued or exhausted for the duration, which was my impression on reading it. Or otherwise clarify what happens in that situation. Call to Arms: Cool. Maybe even a little powerful for its level. This doesn't ruin feinting and other things beyond surprise or being given the flatfooted condition from other maneuvers, etc..., right? Call to Glory: Oh boy... I really, really like this idea. But you made it entirely too complicated and restrictive to the point of being prohibitive to ever learn/ready. Range should just say 30 ft instead of see text. Area should be changed to effect or target and/or say all allies within 30 ft, or "all allies within 30 ft when initiated" if they can move beyond that range after you use it.The one round initiation time,the fact it can be interrupted, the fact you need to maintain concentration on it or else it ends, and the fact the other maneuver has to be another one you have readied/granted is already limiting enough, IMO. I think you should change the concentration check to a diplomacy check. It's a maneuver, at worst it's a Su ability, still not spell-like. And Crusaders don't even get concentration as a class skill! You've made this maneuver useless to them! It doesn't have to be jarring. Just explain that it's difficult to recite the correct words while you're getting pummeled or whatever, to justify using diplomacy for DCs when struck. Bards can take a feat to use perform to retain concentration spells, not much more of a leap... I don't think it's so potent as to warrant an xp cost like making a script. It's already fairly limited and contained in use as you set it up. And by the time you're level 15+, a level 1-3 maneuver shouldn't be that big of a deal. Limit it to one ally per initiator level, 1 / 2 IL, lessen the radius, or bump it to level 9 if you're really worried. On the same note, why the special rules about not re-readying it? They're just so awkward and unnecessary. Obviously if you cease taking standard actions, anyone who hasn't used it loses it. I don't see a problem with refreshing maneuvers and using it again. You're a high level character using up most of his actions for the length of the combat just to give everyone else a weak maneuver to use...not a big deal. Charge Through the Crowd: Seems really weak and situational for a stance. Might work better as a boost. Alternatively, add in some other nice things, like being able to make a single turn of up to 90 degrees during a charge (there's a feat and skill trick to do this already, doesn't seem unbalanced to include in the stance). General's Aid: If it weren't for the tiny radius, I'd be worried it's too strong at character level 3 compared to inspire courage. As it is, should be fine. Inspiring Stature: I think this should be a higher level stance, maybe 5th level. Group fear immunity alone is insane at ECL 5, the awesome diplomacy for will saves thing (which I like!) puts it even more over the top. It might even be worthwhile as a level 8 stance, but I don't think it needs to be that high. Rally the Legion: I have no idea about this one. The half cha duration is kinda wonky, and you're potentially getting a lot out of only a level 2 maneuver. I think this should be an untyped kind of maneuver instead of a boost. Not all maneuvers are strikes, boosts, counters, or stances. Taken Under the Wind: Good. Only "issue" is it doesn't seem that useful to a PC, but for a low level NPC general fighting in mass combat, not bad potentially. White Raven Retribution: No comment, good as written. WR could use a few more mid-level maneuvers other than the stances. There was a level 6 and a level 8 maneuver. The rest were all level 1 or 2, or were a stance. [/QUOTE]
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