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Torchbearer 2nd ed actual play
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8545761" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Alright, good stuff good stuff.</p><p></p><p>I'm going to break this post out into 2 parts (as below).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>1 - All the various parts of system that intersect with the question "when a duress-inducing Twist coincides with Light Source duration ending, should it be (a) a test + Turn to relight (therefore a tick on The Grind) or (b) a test but no Turn or (c) should the PCs be unable to relight (as in the example regarding eating and drinking and therefore almost exclusively have to Flee because of Darkness limiting response capability)?"</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>* </em>Under normal circumstances, when one kindles a Light Source or takes a draught from their skins/chomps rations, it is both (i) not a Turn and (ii) not a test (so effectively a "free action" in D&D parlance). This is a very rare use case in this system. There are others, but these two are absolutely integral to play, foundational even. Its very likely that, across the distribution of all moves made in a game of Torchbearer, kindling a Light Source and Eating or Drinking are the most common moves.</p><p></p><p>* The punishment for being unable to do these two things is extremely disparate:</p><p></p><p>- Failure to kindle a Light Source means Darkness. Darkness means your move space is profoundly contracted and, what moves are available to you suffer 1 Factor for Ob except for riddling. Darkness is extremely punishing and gamestate impacting.</p><p></p><p>- Failure to recover from Hungry and Thirsty (by Eating or Drinking) means the comparatively meager loss of 1 Disposition in any Conflicts that might arise. Now this sucks for sure, but by comparison it is relatively meek in how punitive it is.</p><p></p><p>* Given the duration of Light Sources, the frequency with which one will come up against a duress-inducing Twist which coincides with a Light Source duration ending is not insignificant. It isn't overwhelming, but its not insignificant. In a Short Adventure, you're probably talking 1-ish time. In a Medium Adventure, you're probably talking between 2-3 times. In a Long Adventure, you're likely looking at 4ish. This may seem like not a lot, but, given this game's spiral capability, you're talking about a fair number of "Flee Conflicts w/ extra 1 Factor to tests imposed upon the PCs" across even a small distribution of play. So let us assume that the PCs nearly always eschew that scenario for a Turn-engaging Test against Survivalist Ob3. That means that in pretty much every Long Adventure, you're looking at right around another Light Source-related Grind tick (so another Condition on the PCs). You're also probably about 50/50 on that Ob3, so that means at least the PC kindling the Light Source will earn another Condition in a Long Adventure (and if there is a Helper, they'll earn a lesser one) and they'll endure another Twist (which might be a Conflict, or a Gear complication, or cost - you have to spend 2 Torches because you ruined the first one getting it out of your pouch). If that is indeed intended, that would significantly amplify the fallout I've experienced in running (which will then yield further downstream fallout). </p><p></p><p>* The system has Skill and Ob associated with making that test to get that fire kindled under duress (and Survivalist is a common Skill). Meanwhile, it does not for eating and drinking under duress. You could make a case for a few different Skills, but nothing dovetails with actions/factors either clearly or neatly.</p><p></p><p>So when I put that all together, I arrive at the position that I outlined above and why I don't feel that the entry regarding eating/drinking to recover Hungry and Thirsty does quite the work that your reading of it does. I feel confident that, if I had handled past play in the way you're inferring, it would lead to such significant Light Source-related selection pressures upon play that every game would degenerate into featuring a specialist Torchbearer PC with an Instinct to deal with the brutal decision-point of Flee Conflict in Darkness w/ +1 Factor to tests or Grind +1 tick w/ 50/50 odds of another Condition/Twist. However, if you feel your reading/handling is more in-line with the aggregate of the intersecting parts above and the intentions of Luke/Thor, then that is the route you must take! I'll be curious if you feel the same way after a nice chunk of play (you very might!).</p><p></p><p></p><p>2 - On your Twist on the failed Lore Master test:</p><p></p><p>- I believe the broken and buried Basalt Guardian might activate on something like this? I might have done the following:</p><p></p><p>1) Right before Darkness consumes the room, a hulking arm grasps Gondolf by the Belt and it either (a) tears their waterskin or something precious from their Belt and ruins it or (b) the arm hooks the belt entirely and the PC can unclasp the belt and lose all of the stuff on it or engage in a Kill Conflict (including the Turn against The Grind that comes with this) with it (concession for the PCs being 1 or 2 items on the belt ruined/Angry/Exhausted/Injured or some combination depending). </p><p></p><p>2) Tharin, in order to even perform the Kill Conflict, could test Survival Ob3 no Turn. Failure there would probably be either 2 Torches (he ruins the first in the haste/effort to kindle it) or Angry (the stress of the situation gets to him).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8545761, member: 6696971"] Alright, good stuff good stuff. I'm going to break this post out into 2 parts (as below). [I]1 - All the various parts of system that intersect with the question "when a duress-inducing Twist coincides with Light Source duration ending, should it be (a) a test + Turn to relight (therefore a tick on The Grind) or (b) a test but no Turn or (c) should the PCs be unable to relight (as in the example regarding eating and drinking and therefore almost exclusively have to Flee because of Darkness limiting response capability)?" * [/I]Under normal circumstances, when one kindles a Light Source or takes a draught from their skins/chomps rations, it is both (i) not a Turn and (ii) not a test (so effectively a "free action" in D&D parlance). This is a very rare use case in this system. There are others, but these two are absolutely integral to play, foundational even. Its very likely that, across the distribution of all moves made in a game of Torchbearer, kindling a Light Source and Eating or Drinking are the most common moves. * The punishment for being unable to do these two things is extremely disparate: - Failure to kindle a Light Source means Darkness. Darkness means your move space is profoundly contracted and, what moves are available to you suffer 1 Factor for Ob except for riddling. Darkness is extremely punishing and gamestate impacting. - Failure to recover from Hungry and Thirsty (by Eating or Drinking) means the comparatively meager loss of 1 Disposition in any Conflicts that might arise. Now this sucks for sure, but by comparison it is relatively meek in how punitive it is. * Given the duration of Light Sources, the frequency with which one will come up against a duress-inducing Twist which coincides with a Light Source duration ending is not insignificant. It isn't overwhelming, but its not insignificant. In a Short Adventure, you're probably talking 1-ish time. In a Medium Adventure, you're probably talking between 2-3 times. In a Long Adventure, you're likely looking at 4ish. This may seem like not a lot, but, given this game's spiral capability, you're talking about a fair number of "Flee Conflicts w/ extra 1 Factor to tests imposed upon the PCs" across even a small distribution of play. So let us assume that the PCs nearly always eschew that scenario for a Turn-engaging Test against Survivalist Ob3. That means that in pretty much every Long Adventure, you're looking at right around another Light Source-related Grind tick (so another Condition on the PCs). You're also probably about 50/50 on that Ob3, so that means at least the PC kindling the Light Source will earn another Condition in a Long Adventure (and if there is a Helper, they'll earn a lesser one) and they'll endure another Twist (which might be a Conflict, or a Gear complication, or cost - you have to spend 2 Torches because you ruined the first one getting it out of your pouch). If that is indeed intended, that would significantly amplify the fallout I've experienced in running (which will then yield further downstream fallout). * The system has Skill and Ob associated with making that test to get that fire kindled under duress (and Survivalist is a common Skill). Meanwhile, it does not for eating and drinking under duress. You could make a case for a few different Skills, but nothing dovetails with actions/factors either clearly or neatly. So when I put that all together, I arrive at the position that I outlined above and why I don't feel that the entry regarding eating/drinking to recover Hungry and Thirsty does quite the work that your reading of it does. I feel confident that, if I had handled past play in the way you're inferring, it would lead to such significant Light Source-related selection pressures upon play that every game would degenerate into featuring a specialist Torchbearer PC with an Instinct to deal with the brutal decision-point of Flee Conflict in Darkness w/ +1 Factor to tests or Grind +1 tick w/ 50/50 odds of another Condition/Twist. However, if you feel your reading/handling is more in-line with the aggregate of the intersecting parts above and the intentions of Luke/Thor, then that is the route you must take! I'll be curious if you feel the same way after a nice chunk of play (you very might!). 2 - On your Twist on the failed Lore Master test: - I believe the broken and buried Basalt Guardian might activate on something like this? I might have done the following: 1) Right before Darkness consumes the room, a hulking arm grasps Gondolf by the Belt and it either (a) tears their waterskin or something precious from their Belt and ruins it or (b) the arm hooks the belt entirely and the PC can unclasp the belt and lose all of the stuff on it or engage in a Kill Conflict (including the Turn against The Grind that comes with this) with it (concession for the PCs being 1 or 2 items on the belt ruined/Angry/Exhausted/Injured or some combination depending). 2) Tharin, in order to even perform the Kill Conflict, could test Survival Ob3 no Turn. Failure there would probably be either 2 Torches (he ruins the first in the haste/effort to kindle it) or Angry (the stress of the situation gets to him). [/QUOTE]
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