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<blockquote data-quote="Bullgrit" data-source="post: 2738627" data-attributes="member: 31216"><p>Wow. So much negativity directed at DMs, here.</p><p></p><p>There was no DM error from my point of view -- as a Player in the game. [I am the paladin of the group.] As for our magic equipment, the bard chose to have her whip-dagger magicked. I could have had my sword enhanced, but I chose to get full plate armor. [There is irony here, that as soon as I get my heavy armor, our first opponents are incorporeal. Though, from the attitude of the responses so far, I'm sure someone will say that the DM must have chosen wraiths and shadows to screw over my high AC character. :-( ] In our town adventures (against humanoid-type enemies), the bard has been the best fighter, beleive it or not. What with tripping and disarming, etc.</p><p></p><p>And actually, it's 48 hours to retrieve the item. We have retreated (after the shadows encounter), received healing (<em>restorations</em>) from our patron, and are going back in the dungeon with a cleric ally on our next game session.</p><p></p><p>I think it's pretty clear the DM was letting us do what we wanted, and was willing to let the adventure play out as we played it.</p><p></p><p>I always assume that if the Players don't make a well-rounded party (with the four core covered), they are responsible for dealing with their weaknesses. I don't expect a DM to tailor the world and opposition to avoid our foolishness.</p><p></p><p>In hindsight, we should have realized that this dungeon would be occupied only by undead, and should have prepared better for it (including bringing in a cleric NPC) -- we were told it was haunted. The allip, we retreated from (after we pulled out the one PC who kind of fell into its "trap"); and we avoided it the second and third times we had to pass its area. The wraith, we attacked needlessly -- it was only guarding its room, which we had no reason to invade for this adventure.</p><p></p><p>Or the DM could follow the rules and run it as he did, with no need to justify anything later. Those papers were not our only way out of that situation.</p><p></p><p>I thought the DM was pretty specific about it: one person per torn paper. We did not <em>identify</em> the papers, we were just told by captured bad guys how they worked.</p><p></p><p>I don't think he fudged anything. There was no reason for him to. A TPK (near or full) wouldn't have ended the campaign, what with a town nearby that can supply more adventurers.</p><p></p><p>I did talk with the DM: I said, "We were fools to stay in that fight. I can't beleive we survived. Thanks for a good game."</p><p></p><p>Again, I don't think the DM was fudging. It wasn't necessary, and I don't think it's his personality to fudge for "story". (Thank goodness.) As for the room healing the shadows: We don't know for sure, but it was only after being wounded that the shadows flew back to the room. There might have been something else going on there, but we don't know anything for certain.</p><p></p><p>Wow. You guys are terribly suspicious. One: If he was fudging, he was doing a great job of keeping it hidden. Two: If he wanted to fudge to save us, he could have done a better job -- like having the shadows unable to leave the room at all (after all, we had a good taste of what they could do after they zapped the paladin in the first round standing in the doorway).</p><p></p><p>I'm amazed that I'm having to defend the DM's game. I'm a Player in the game, and we nearly had a TPK purely through the stupidity of us Players (and all of us have agreed on this point), I post the miracle on a message board for discussion, and then I have to defend the DM. I expected to have to defend my dumb actions and poor play, not the DM's reactions and good play.</p><p></p><p>By the way, the adventure is part of an ENnie and Origins award winning series that we've been playing from 1st level. There have been some side stints between the main adventures, but this particular adventure is, I beleive, right out of the book.</p><p></p><p>The DM has also been running another group through this same series, and he has, here and there, mentioned how the other group handled some of the encounters (in the whole series). The other group has a mage and cleric, and so handled this part much better than we. But our group handled the city-based adventure better than the other.</p><p></p><p>Wow, I'm surprised. Posting and discussing an interesting game anecdote on ENWorld isn't as much fun as I expected it to be.</p><p></p><p>Bullgrit</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bullgrit, post: 2738627, member: 31216"] Wow. So much negativity directed at DMs, here. There was no DM error from my point of view -- as a Player in the game. [I am the paladin of the group.] As for our magic equipment, the bard chose to have her whip-dagger magicked. I could have had my sword enhanced, but I chose to get full plate armor. [There is irony here, that as soon as I get my heavy armor, our first opponents are incorporeal. Though, from the attitude of the responses so far, I'm sure someone will say that the DM must have chosen wraiths and shadows to screw over my high AC character. :-( ] In our town adventures (against humanoid-type enemies), the bard has been the best fighter, beleive it or not. What with tripping and disarming, etc. And actually, it's 48 hours to retrieve the item. We have retreated (after the shadows encounter), received healing ([i]restorations[/i]) from our patron, and are going back in the dungeon with a cleric ally on our next game session. I think it's pretty clear the DM was letting us do what we wanted, and was willing to let the adventure play out as we played it. I always assume that if the Players don't make a well-rounded party (with the four core covered), they are responsible for dealing with their weaknesses. I don't expect a DM to tailor the world and opposition to avoid our foolishness. In hindsight, we should have realized that this dungeon would be occupied only by undead, and should have prepared better for it (including bringing in a cleric NPC) -- we were told it was haunted. The allip, we retreated from (after we pulled out the one PC who kind of fell into its "trap"); and we avoided it the second and third times we had to pass its area. The wraith, we attacked needlessly -- it was only guarding its room, which we had no reason to invade for this adventure. Or the DM could follow the rules and run it as he did, with no need to justify anything later. Those papers were not our only way out of that situation. I thought the DM was pretty specific about it: one person per torn paper. We did not [i]identify[/i] the papers, we were just told by captured bad guys how they worked. I don't think he fudged anything. There was no reason for him to. A TPK (near or full) wouldn't have ended the campaign, what with a town nearby that can supply more adventurers. I did talk with the DM: I said, "We were fools to stay in that fight. I can't beleive we survived. Thanks for a good game." Again, I don't think the DM was fudging. It wasn't necessary, and I don't think it's his personality to fudge for "story". (Thank goodness.) As for the room healing the shadows: We don't know for sure, but it was only after being wounded that the shadows flew back to the room. There might have been something else going on there, but we don't know anything for certain. Wow. You guys are terribly suspicious. One: If he was fudging, he was doing a great job of keeping it hidden. Two: If he wanted to fudge to save us, he could have done a better job -- like having the shadows unable to leave the room at all (after all, we had a good taste of what they could do after they zapped the paladin in the first round standing in the doorway). I'm amazed that I'm having to defend the DM's game. I'm a Player in the game, and we nearly had a TPK purely through the stupidity of us Players (and all of us have agreed on this point), I post the miracle on a message board for discussion, and then I have to defend the DM. I expected to have to defend my dumb actions and poor play, not the DM's reactions and good play. By the way, the adventure is part of an ENnie and Origins award winning series that we've been playing from 1st level. There have been some side stints between the main adventures, but this particular adventure is, I beleive, right out of the book. The DM has also been running another group through this same series, and he has, here and there, mentioned how the other group handled some of the encounters (in the whole series). The other group has a mage and cleric, and so handled this part much better than we. But our group handled the city-based adventure better than the other. Wow, I'm surprised. Posting and discussing an interesting game anecdote on ENWorld isn't as much fun as I expected it to be. Bullgrit [/QUOTE]
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