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<blockquote data-quote="Chris Hohl" data-source="post: 7352299" data-attributes="member: 6941382"><p>My comments as to what I disagree with (I do agree with most of the guide):</p><p></p><p>Conquest Paladin. One of the biggest caveats mentioned here is the "lack of fear abilities to capitalize on the aura, but it seems like Treatmonk is ignoring the ways that the Conquest Paladin can access fear (discounting multiclassing and/or magic items). To that point, it isn't like the channel divinity is the only fear the Conquest Paladin has access to. To begin with, the expanded spell list gives the spell fear at level 9, which is obviously quite good when used in conjunction with the aura. Furthermore, Paladin's have wrathful smite, which syngergizes extremely well with a conquest paladin. Also to note, Shield Mater (and anything that knocks a creature prone) is extremely potent on a Conquest Paladin because a creature who is feared and prone in the Paladin's aura can't get up, which is obviously devastating to many opponents. Once you take into account Multiclassing, Feats, and Magic items, it clearly becomes even more viable, with such things like dipping 1 level in Hexblade for cause fear (and the other hexblade benefits like +cha to damage, allowing you to reduce the MADness of your Paladin), or the Dragon Fear feat if you choose a dragonborn, or items such as the Mace of Terror. Overall, I'd rate this subclass green.</p><p></p><p>Grave Cleric: I think both Path of the Grave, Circle of Mortality, and and Sentinel are all being undervalued here and I'd pump them all up a single color level. While Circle of Mortality may seem like only 4 healing from HW, the fact that it maximizes healing shouldnt be understanded, and allows the grave cleric to use a different healing spell in place of HW to allow someone (or multiple downed someones) to get back up and into the fight without worrying about immediately going down again. Mortality is extremely strong as long as you have someone in your party who has the ability to single attack nova, and while that does demand a slight amount of group planning, its quite strong when paired with things like a rogue or paladin or a variety of other one hit nova classes/subclasses. Finally, Sentinel can turn a crit hit into a normal hit, which is clearly amazing especially paired with characters like Bladesingers who have a high AC but low hitpoints, making crits the main reason why they may go down. Subclass should be purple here. </p><p></p><p>Arcane Archer: I honestly think this subclass is over-valued. As anything but a 3 level dip it seems extremely sub-optimal, and even then it's pretty sub-optimal in comparison to a battlemaster. I honestly can't think of a single reason why you'd want this over a battlemaster, which isn't good. I'd drop it down a level.</p><p></p><p>Horizon Walker: I again think this subclass is under-valued, as it is capable of some of the highest self sufficient consistent ranged damage (right under battlemaster) while having probably the best mobility out of any martial focused class. This is easily green with it's combinaton of high sustained ranged damage (haste + xbow master + SS + DS), and incredibly mobility, and is even pretty strong as a martial. While it has some ribbons, Distant Strike is so good that this subclass deserves a higher rating, and being able to pump out 5 attacks with sharpshooter at level 11 while teleporting around shouldn't be taken lightly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chris Hohl, post: 7352299, member: 6941382"] My comments as to what I disagree with (I do agree with most of the guide): Conquest Paladin. One of the biggest caveats mentioned here is the "lack of fear abilities to capitalize on the aura, but it seems like Treatmonk is ignoring the ways that the Conquest Paladin can access fear (discounting multiclassing and/or magic items). To that point, it isn't like the channel divinity is the only fear the Conquest Paladin has access to. To begin with, the expanded spell list gives the spell fear at level 9, which is obviously quite good when used in conjunction with the aura. Furthermore, Paladin's have wrathful smite, which syngergizes extremely well with a conquest paladin. Also to note, Shield Mater (and anything that knocks a creature prone) is extremely potent on a Conquest Paladin because a creature who is feared and prone in the Paladin's aura can't get up, which is obviously devastating to many opponents. Once you take into account Multiclassing, Feats, and Magic items, it clearly becomes even more viable, with such things like dipping 1 level in Hexblade for cause fear (and the other hexblade benefits like +cha to damage, allowing you to reduce the MADness of your Paladin), or the Dragon Fear feat if you choose a dragonborn, or items such as the Mace of Terror. Overall, I'd rate this subclass green. Grave Cleric: I think both Path of the Grave, Circle of Mortality, and and Sentinel are all being undervalued here and I'd pump them all up a single color level. While Circle of Mortality may seem like only 4 healing from HW, the fact that it maximizes healing shouldnt be understanded, and allows the grave cleric to use a different healing spell in place of HW to allow someone (or multiple downed someones) to get back up and into the fight without worrying about immediately going down again. Mortality is extremely strong as long as you have someone in your party who has the ability to single attack nova, and while that does demand a slight amount of group planning, its quite strong when paired with things like a rogue or paladin or a variety of other one hit nova classes/subclasses. Finally, Sentinel can turn a crit hit into a normal hit, which is clearly amazing especially paired with characters like Bladesingers who have a high AC but low hitpoints, making crits the main reason why they may go down. Subclass should be purple here. Arcane Archer: I honestly think this subclass is over-valued. As anything but a 3 level dip it seems extremely sub-optimal, and even then it's pretty sub-optimal in comparison to a battlemaster. I honestly can't think of a single reason why you'd want this over a battlemaster, which isn't good. I'd drop it down a level. Horizon Walker: I again think this subclass is under-valued, as it is capable of some of the highest self sufficient consistent ranged damage (right under battlemaster) while having probably the best mobility out of any martial focused class. This is easily green with it's combinaton of high sustained ranged damage (haste + xbow master + SS + DS), and incredibly mobility, and is even pretty strong as a martial. While it has some ribbons, Distant Strike is so good that this subclass deserves a higher rating, and being able to pump out 5 attacks with sharpshooter at level 11 while teleporting around shouldn't be taken lightly. [/QUOTE]
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