Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Treantmonklvl20" data-source="post: 6719995" data-attributes="member: 55582"><p>Sure thing, I'll take a look tomorrow.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, so I'm going to disagree with you on a few points here. Let's go through point by point. Yes it's 3 dimensions, but 30' cube (15' diameter) is quite a small area for the level. That said, if the damage was concentrated enough that wouldn't be an issue.</p><p></p><p>I have no problem with the range, its the effect that I have a problem with</p><p></p><p>ALL undead and ALL constructs are immune, and that's before we even look at necrotic resistance or immunity. That's not good, that's actually quite terrible. Undead alone are probably making up more enemies than all the creatures immune to fire in most campaigns. The amount of creatures immune to this spell is one of the big problems it has.</p><p></p><p>A Failed CON save by the way. This is going to be the 2nd worst save to target at high levels (Str being the worst, though few things target strength). Those high CR monsters tend to have high Con scores, which means more made saving throws. Average 22 damage on a successful save. You need to be 15th level to cast this spell. You can cast it a maximum of once per day. 22 or 45 damage on average. That's for your premiere 1/day spell. That's not good. Average HP of a CR 11 creature is just shy of 200. That's CR 11 - you will be facing lots of such creatures for even a run-of-the-mill encounter. </p><p></p><p>You are talking about using a Fireball (3rd level spell) with an 8th level slot. Generally speaking, using low level spells with high level slots is just a terrible idea. We really aren't comparing apples to apples.</p><p></p><p>How about we look at Chain Lightning. Chain Lightning is a 6th level spell. Let's cast it with a 6th level slot and compare to Horrid Wilting:</p><p></p><p>1) Range: 150' in both cases - winner: tie</p><p>2) Damage: 10d8 in both cases - winner: tie</p><p>3) Damage immunity: (Electricity immunity/resistance) vs (Necrotic Immunity/Resistance + All Undead + All Constructs): Winner Chain Lightning</p><p>4) Saving throw: Dexterity vs Consitution: Winner Chain Lightning</p><p>5) Area of effect: 30' cube vs 30' radius (both 3 dimensional) Winner Chain Lightning</p><p></p><p>Now Chain Lightning has a maximum number of targets it can hit, but on the other hand, there is no friendly fire. That's probably a wash.</p><p></p><p>Chain lightning wins hands down. This is a 6th level spell, and I rated it orange and said "it's probably not worth it", still, superior to the 8th level Horrid Wilting spell.</p><p></p><p>I should also mention though, that if you are especially interested in Blasting spells - The Wizard Guide that really lays it out the best isn't mine, it's this one: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bGlFsSDqGb5uIgeeO2ULtDFECzdlV6tI-d6eZn_reEQ/edit" target="_blank">Arrive on Time, A general guide to Wizardry.</a> Check it out, it's well worth your time. I will note that he rated the spell better than I did (purple - his "so-so" rating) and pointed out that it's probably a good choice for Necromancers because of synergy with Grim Harvest.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>So a couple things:</p><p></p><p>1) I don't think the math holds up (as I pointed out above)</p><p>2) I don't think you actually get the water, I think it is gone. At least, that's the way I read it.</p><p>3) "Unless all blast spells at 8th level are auto-brown" It actually is pretty close to that. There really aren't any good blast options for your 8th level slot. Just look what Meteor Swarm is going to do with your 9th level slot. Shouldn't an 8th level blast be 1/2 as good? It's not even close to 1/2 as good.</p><p></p><p> I should mention at this point that I rated Meteor Swarm green, and it's just a blast spell. However, unlike Horrid Wilting, the range, area and damage are appropriate for a spell of the level. IMO</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Treantmonklvl20, post: 6719995, member: 55582"] Sure thing, I'll take a look tomorrow. OK, so I'm going to disagree with you on a few points here. Let's go through point by point. Yes it's 3 dimensions, but 30' cube (15' diameter) is quite a small area for the level. That said, if the damage was concentrated enough that wouldn't be an issue. I have no problem with the range, its the effect that I have a problem with ALL undead and ALL constructs are immune, and that's before we even look at necrotic resistance or immunity. That's not good, that's actually quite terrible. Undead alone are probably making up more enemies than all the creatures immune to fire in most campaigns. The amount of creatures immune to this spell is one of the big problems it has. A Failed CON save by the way. This is going to be the 2nd worst save to target at high levels (Str being the worst, though few things target strength). Those high CR monsters tend to have high Con scores, which means more made saving throws. Average 22 damage on a successful save. You need to be 15th level to cast this spell. You can cast it a maximum of once per day. 22 or 45 damage on average. That's for your premiere 1/day spell. That's not good. Average HP of a CR 11 creature is just shy of 200. That's CR 11 - you will be facing lots of such creatures for even a run-of-the-mill encounter. You are talking about using a Fireball (3rd level spell) with an 8th level slot. Generally speaking, using low level spells with high level slots is just a terrible idea. We really aren't comparing apples to apples. How about we look at Chain Lightning. Chain Lightning is a 6th level spell. Let's cast it with a 6th level slot and compare to Horrid Wilting: 1) Range: 150' in both cases - winner: tie 2) Damage: 10d8 in both cases - winner: tie 3) Damage immunity: (Electricity immunity/resistance) vs (Necrotic Immunity/Resistance + All Undead + All Constructs): Winner Chain Lightning 4) Saving throw: Dexterity vs Consitution: Winner Chain Lightning 5) Area of effect: 30' cube vs 30' radius (both 3 dimensional) Winner Chain Lightning Now Chain Lightning has a maximum number of targets it can hit, but on the other hand, there is no friendly fire. That's probably a wash. Chain lightning wins hands down. This is a 6th level spell, and I rated it orange and said "it's probably not worth it", still, superior to the 8th level Horrid Wilting spell. I should also mention though, that if you are especially interested in Blasting spells - The Wizard Guide that really lays it out the best isn't mine, it's this one: [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bGlFsSDqGb5uIgeeO2ULtDFECzdlV6tI-d6eZn_reEQ/edit"]Arrive on Time, A general guide to Wizardry.[/URL] Check it out, it's well worth your time. I will note that he rated the spell better than I did (purple - his "so-so" rating) and pointed out that it's probably a good choice for Necromancers because of synergy with Grim Harvest. So a couple things: 1) I don't think the math holds up (as I pointed out above) 2) I don't think you actually get the water, I think it is gone. At least, that's the way I read it. 3) "Unless all blast spells at 8th level are auto-brown" It actually is pretty close to that. There really aren't any good blast options for your 8th level slot. Just look what Meteor Swarm is going to do with your 9th level slot. Shouldn't an 8th level blast be 1/2 as good? It's not even close to 1/2 as good. I should mention at this point that I rated Meteor Swarm green, and it's just a blast spell. However, unlike Horrid Wilting, the range, area and damage are appropriate for a spell of the level. IMO [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
Top