Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Treantmonklvl20" data-source="post: 7187448" data-attributes="member: 55582"><p>As Hemlock mentions, we are likely looking at more than 3d6 damage, however, I still agree with your point. I will consider both these spells, I've likely overrated Evard's, as I've failed to get the milage from it that I originally expected. I do think that the anchor point limitation isn't as bad as it once was (as you can now "layer" the web), but it isn't good enough for blue rating. I've downgraded Evard's to green. They are both good spells, but neither are standouts IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This statement seems odd to me. I usually consider circumstantial spells to be better in a vacuum. Versatility is usually better in actual play.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree here - not because Otiluke's isn't good for this purpose, but because Polymorph is SO good for this purpose. Keep in mind though that it's hard for even other blue spells to compare well for their level to Polymorph, which may well be the best spell for its level in the game...scratch that. It is clearly the best spell for its level in the game. At level 7 you can turn your buddy into a giant ape - 157 hp and 2 attacks at +9 for 22 hp damage each. That's out of control good. If you are trying to convince me that Polymorph is better than Otiluke's, you are preaching to the choir.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am not a huge fan of single target save or suck (as it is an all-or-nothing proposition), and if that was the only use of the spell, I would be much less enthused with it. Keep in mind though there is more than one use. From a defensive standpoint, there are circumstances where it is better than Polymorph (particularly in self-defense). In regards to trapping an enemy, it's OK. Much better than single target save or sucks that provide a saving throw every round.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So we're comparing spells that do different things here, but there's a bit of apples and oranges going on here, but in all cases, I think Otiluke's holds it's own. Let me go through:</p><p></p><p>Banishment: First off, this is a good spell - in fact, I rate Banishment the same as Otiluke's. Banishment has the advantage of better save target, better versatility of targets, but lacks the defensive uses of Otiluke's. Overall - similar spells in value.</p><p></p><p>Phantasmal Force: Obviously, we have some targeting issues with spells that don't impact undead, but in addition, you can get a saving throw every round against Phantasmal force. Single target spell with saving throw every round...I was just mentioning that. In order for this spell to have the staying power of Otiluke's the enemy has to fail 10 saves in a row. Naturally of course, it also lacks the versatility, as does banishment. The difference in power between this an Otiluke's is pretty striking.</p><p></p><p>Tasha's: I love Tasha's, because it's pretty effective for a 1st level spell - but it is the ultimate single target save every round spell. This spell is really uncomparable to Otiluke's, as one would expect comparing 1st level to 4th level spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll take a memorized Polymorph and a memorized Banishment over a memorized Otiluke's<em> <strong>If there was no limit on preparations</strong></em><strong>.</strong> I don't think you are considering the value of spells that provide multiple functions. As you level up, determining which spells are prepared becomes ever more challenging. If you can perform multiple functions with one spell (even if each function is less dramatic than a single-purpose spell), this has signficant value.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Single target save or suck with a save every round that several creatures are immune to. I'm satisfied with its rating.</p><p></p><p>Edit: I needed to add the "if there was no limit on preparations" for clarity</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Treantmonklvl20, post: 7187448, member: 55582"] As Hemlock mentions, we are likely looking at more than 3d6 damage, however, I still agree with your point. I will consider both these spells, I've likely overrated Evard's, as I've failed to get the milage from it that I originally expected. I do think that the anchor point limitation isn't as bad as it once was (as you can now "layer" the web), but it isn't good enough for blue rating. I've downgraded Evard's to green. They are both good spells, but neither are standouts IMO. This statement seems odd to me. I usually consider circumstantial spells to be better in a vacuum. Versatility is usually better in actual play. I agree here - not because Otiluke's isn't good for this purpose, but because Polymorph is SO good for this purpose. Keep in mind though that it's hard for even other blue spells to compare well for their level to Polymorph, which may well be the best spell for its level in the game...scratch that. It is clearly the best spell for its level in the game. At level 7 you can turn your buddy into a giant ape - 157 hp and 2 attacks at +9 for 22 hp damage each. That's out of control good. If you are trying to convince me that Polymorph is better than Otiluke's, you are preaching to the choir. I am not a huge fan of single target save or suck (as it is an all-or-nothing proposition), and if that was the only use of the spell, I would be much less enthused with it. Keep in mind though there is more than one use. From a defensive standpoint, there are circumstances where it is better than Polymorph (particularly in self-defense). In regards to trapping an enemy, it's OK. Much better than single target save or sucks that provide a saving throw every round. So we're comparing spells that do different things here, but there's a bit of apples and oranges going on here, but in all cases, I think Otiluke's holds it's own. Let me go through: Banishment: First off, this is a good spell - in fact, I rate Banishment the same as Otiluke's. Banishment has the advantage of better save target, better versatility of targets, but lacks the defensive uses of Otiluke's. Overall - similar spells in value. Phantasmal Force: Obviously, we have some targeting issues with spells that don't impact undead, but in addition, you can get a saving throw every round against Phantasmal force. Single target spell with saving throw every round...I was just mentioning that. In order for this spell to have the staying power of Otiluke's the enemy has to fail 10 saves in a row. Naturally of course, it also lacks the versatility, as does banishment. The difference in power between this an Otiluke's is pretty striking. Tasha's: I love Tasha's, because it's pretty effective for a 1st level spell - but it is the ultimate single target save every round spell. This spell is really uncomparable to Otiluke's, as one would expect comparing 1st level to 4th level spells. I'll take a memorized Polymorph and a memorized Banishment over a memorized Otiluke's[I] [B]If there was no limit on preparations[/B][/I][B].[/B] I don't think you are considering the value of spells that provide multiple functions. As you level up, determining which spells are prepared becomes ever more challenging. If you can perform multiple functions with one spell (even if each function is less dramatic than a single-purpose spell), this has signficant value. Single target save or suck with a save every round that several creatures are immune to. I'm satisfied with its rating. Edit: I needed to add the "if there was no limit on preparations" for clarity [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
Top