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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Turns out my DM cannot into 4e.
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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 6078488" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>The Monster Math was fixed with the Monster Manual 3 and onward. Unfortunately, the DM was using the MM1.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Since you weren't just attacking its Reflex, I don't know why you focused on that, but yes, you ran into a real problem, which I'll address in a moment...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've run 4e a lot, and I ran into the exact same problems right at the beginning. The problem isn't the system, although some of the early adventures exacerbated the problem.</p><p></p><p>The problem is using higher-level monsters. Keep on the Shadowfell has a deserved reputation for being a bad adventure. The final boss is 4 levels higher than the PCs, and because he's an elite, his defenses were all increased by 2. No one could hit him. Also, he's boring <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p>The DM made the mistake of using higher-level monsters. DMs shouldn't use monsters more than maybe 2 levels higher than the PCs. (MM3 and onward, they get no defense boosts for being elites.) For a challenging encounter, use more monsters. Two solos of the party's level is a level +4 encounter (assuming a party of 5, so double the usual XP budget) and can result in a TPK, but at least they won't hit all the time and the PCs won't miss all the time. The PCs might even be able to escape <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I got to play a bit of 4e before the DM bowed out, and he ran an old adventure as written. It was something based in Forgotten Realms, Escape from Sembia. We curb-stomped our first opponents, but sometimes found ourselves facing NPCs 4 levels higher than ours. Not fun.</p><p></p><p>The spider swarm is fairly balanced for 7th-level PCs. It probably doesn't do enough damage actually (for a 7th-level monster) since this is a monster pre-MM3 rules (damage went up).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 6078488, member: 1165"] The Monster Math was fixed with the Monster Manual 3 and onward. Unfortunately, the DM was using the MM1. Since you weren't just attacking its Reflex, I don't know why you focused on that, but yes, you ran into a real problem, which I'll address in a moment... I've run 4e a lot, and I ran into the exact same problems right at the beginning. The problem isn't the system, although some of the early adventures exacerbated the problem. The problem is using higher-level monsters. Keep on the Shadowfell has a deserved reputation for being a bad adventure. The final boss is 4 levels higher than the PCs, and because he's an elite, his defenses were all increased by 2. No one could hit him. Also, he's boring :( The DM made the mistake of using higher-level monsters. DMs shouldn't use monsters more than maybe 2 levels higher than the PCs. (MM3 and onward, they get no defense boosts for being elites.) For a challenging encounter, use more monsters. Two solos of the party's level is a level +4 encounter (assuming a party of 5, so double the usual XP budget) and can result in a TPK, but at least they won't hit all the time and the PCs won't miss all the time. The PCs might even be able to escape :) I got to play a bit of 4e before the DM bowed out, and he ran an old adventure as written. It was something based in Forgotten Realms, Escape from Sembia. We curb-stomped our first opponents, but sometimes found ourselves facing NPCs 4 levels higher than ours. Not fun. The spider swarm is fairly balanced for 7th-level PCs. It probably doesn't do enough damage actually (for a 7th-level monster) since this is a monster pre-MM3 rules (damage went up). [/QUOTE]
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Turns out my DM cannot into 4e.
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