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Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8028600" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm glad you and your players have no problem disconnecting completely from reality, but not everyone can. And not everyone can do so for the same issues, some of them hit too close, and hurt too much. </p><p></p><p>And while you might not look to the game for any commentary or mirror, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And that it isn't a problem for them. You immediately disagreed with my statement about the players being uncomfortable being slavers by telling me that the players aren't slavers, but the characters are. </p><p></p><p>I've got a character who is helping to rebuild a society after the collapse of the world. Lot of decisions to be made, lot of resources to divy up (he is acting as the town's Quartermaster as well as the chef and Lord). However, do you know what I end up doing as I'm thinking and planning? I think in terms of "I"</p><p></p><p>"I need to figure out how to deal with the sewer monsters". "I need to remember to check on the progress of the Tower", "I need to-"</p><p></p><p>I don't think I'm special or weird, so I imagine that when your players would be gifted a hundred slaves, they do the same thing. They think of the situation in terms of "I". And I can imagine a lot of people who would not be comfortable thinking that way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, considering that Lanefan proposed the setting as The Roman Empire, but they are the good guys and we don't consider their excesses problematic... I'd say no. WoTC should not be able to make a setting that glorifies the economic and social good of slavery and war. </p><p></p><p>Can they make "Fantasy Rome warts and all because people are people"? Sure. That's not all that hard to do. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Stopping you right here. Because the narrator of the Duergar story is.... the omniscient view of WoTC presenting the objective facts. Unreliable narrators are great, but that is not what is happening here, because this isn't a narrator at all, but the game designer telling us the real story. </p><p></p><p>We can change it, we can add an unreliable narrator and make this something else, but that is not what we have.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And, to respond to the rest of your post, presenting just the observable facts and a few reasonings is a good solution, but presenting everything with no value judgements is hard and I've yet to see them do so, which makes me wonder if they even can.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8028600, member: 6801228"] I'm glad you and your players have no problem disconnecting completely from reality, but not everyone can. And not everyone can do so for the same issues, some of them hit too close, and hurt too much. And while you might not look to the game for any commentary or mirror, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And that it isn't a problem for them. You immediately disagreed with my statement about the players being uncomfortable being slavers by telling me that the players aren't slavers, but the characters are. I've got a character who is helping to rebuild a society after the collapse of the world. Lot of decisions to be made, lot of resources to divy up (he is acting as the town's Quartermaster as well as the chef and Lord). However, do you know what I end up doing as I'm thinking and planning? I think in terms of "I" "I need to figure out how to deal with the sewer monsters". "I need to remember to check on the progress of the Tower", "I need to-" I don't think I'm special or weird, so I imagine that when your players would be gifted a hundred slaves, they do the same thing. They think of the situation in terms of "I". And I can imagine a lot of people who would not be comfortable thinking that way. Well, considering that Lanefan proposed the setting as The Roman Empire, but they are the good guys and we don't consider their excesses problematic... I'd say no. WoTC should not be able to make a setting that glorifies the economic and social good of slavery and war. Can they make "Fantasy Rome warts and all because people are people"? Sure. That's not all that hard to do. Stopping you right here. Because the narrator of the Duergar story is.... the omniscient view of WoTC presenting the objective facts. Unreliable narrators are great, but that is not what is happening here, because this isn't a narrator at all, but the game designer telling us the real story. We can change it, we can add an unreliable narrator and make this something else, but that is not what we have. And, to respond to the rest of your post, presenting just the observable facts and a few reasonings is a good solution, but presenting everything with no value judgements is hard and I've yet to see them do so, which makes me wonder if they even can. [/QUOTE]
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