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UA Generic Classes--Questions, Comments, NPCs, Prestige?
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<blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1377149" data-attributes="member: 10201"><p>No. Why do monks (as described in any version of D&D) not cast spells? Because the trope is something sufficiently different from what we generally think of as "magic spells". Similarly, D&D already supports the idea that there're aspects of being a person of faith that don't have anything to do with spellcasting, and fantasy lit supports even more. Most of a paladin's abilities (other than combat abilities) are the sort of thing i'm talking about--not spellcasting, but clearly supernatural, and derived from faith. Likewise turning undead. And a druid's shapeshifting. As for the wilderness trope: you're right, it's less of a distinct thing under the current system, but i think it *should* be distinct. Look at the literature: even the jack-of-all-trades, able to do things she's never even tried before, is generally not portrayed as having particular wilderness survival skills. Likewise, the wilderness archetype, as portrayed in characters like Goldmoon and the main character of Last of the Mohicans, and Tarzan, and so on, is seen as being ultra-competent when dealing with the natural world, but not particularly skillful or technical. So i think it can best be portrayed with two distinct classes. Yes, an argument could be made for simply having different skill/feat tracks, but i'm building in bits for the two classes that wouldn't cross over as easily, and it simply makes for a clearer division of archetypes.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you only have 3 classes, as done with the "generic classes" option in Unearthed Arcana, you either don't have a particular home for such things as turning undead and the paladin's aura, or you tie them to one of the other sorts of ability (spellcasting, skill use, or combat). The former solution has a problem, in that you lose some of the distinctiveness (much like warriors being able to usurp the rogue's schtick by sneak-attacking while still having superior combat skills, as others have talked about). But the latter also has a problem: why should you have to cast spells to turn undead? Why should you have to cast spells to leap 100'? Why should you have to be good at combat to hunt animals? Why should you have to cast spells to have an animal companion? And so on--since the point of functionalist classes, rather than archetype-based classes, is to break it down to capabilities, and let people use them to build the archetype they want, maintaining some of those archetype-based ties undermines the point. If i want to play a character who is divinely inspired and casts spells, i can do that with the core classes. It's when i want to play someone who's divinely inpsired and *doesn't* cast spells, that i need to break out the abilities into separate classes, and break down those amalgamations of disparate abilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="woodelf, post: 1377149, member: 10201"] No. Why do monks (as described in any version of D&D) not cast spells? Because the trope is something sufficiently different from what we generally think of as "magic spells". Similarly, D&D already supports the idea that there're aspects of being a person of faith that don't have anything to do with spellcasting, and fantasy lit supports even more. Most of a paladin's abilities (other than combat abilities) are the sort of thing i'm talking about--not spellcasting, but clearly supernatural, and derived from faith. Likewise turning undead. And a druid's shapeshifting. As for the wilderness trope: you're right, it's less of a distinct thing under the current system, but i think it *should* be distinct. Look at the literature: even the jack-of-all-trades, able to do things she's never even tried before, is generally not portrayed as having particular wilderness survival skills. Likewise, the wilderness archetype, as portrayed in characters like Goldmoon and the main character of Last of the Mohicans, and Tarzan, and so on, is seen as being ultra-competent when dealing with the natural world, but not particularly skillful or technical. So i think it can best be portrayed with two distinct classes. Yes, an argument could be made for simply having different skill/feat tracks, but i'm building in bits for the two classes that wouldn't cross over as easily, and it simply makes for a clearer division of archetypes. Now, if you only have 3 classes, as done with the "generic classes" option in Unearthed Arcana, you either don't have a particular home for such things as turning undead and the paladin's aura, or you tie them to one of the other sorts of ability (spellcasting, skill use, or combat). The former solution has a problem, in that you lose some of the distinctiveness (much like warriors being able to usurp the rogue's schtick by sneak-attacking while still having superior combat skills, as others have talked about). But the latter also has a problem: why should you have to cast spells to turn undead? Why should you have to cast spells to leap 100'? Why should you have to be good at combat to hunt animals? Why should you have to cast spells to have an animal companion? And so on--since the point of functionalist classes, rather than archetype-based classes, is to break it down to capabilities, and let people use them to build the archetype they want, maintaining some of those archetype-based ties undermines the point. If i want to play a character who is divinely inspired and casts spells, i can do that with the core classes. It's when i want to play someone who's divinely inpsired and *doesn't* cast spells, that i need to break out the abilities into separate classes, and break down those amalgamations of disparate abilities. [/QUOTE]
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