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Unearthed Arcana Fighter: Samurai, Sharpshooter, Arcane Archer & Knight
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7704931" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Just because something requires a save doesn’t mean the party is going to be able to make it. The meteor swarm example, while sleeping you are unconscious, while unconscious you automatically fail strength and dex saving throws. You take full damage, unless rogue (because evasion). The scry requires a save, but is the fighter really going to make a DC 28 wisdom save (Wizard, 18-20 level, 8+5 int+6 prof+5 knows the target well+4 has a possession of the target)? </p><p></p><p>But that isn’t the point, you said that if you don’t like an ability or effect if it could potentially happen to your player, then it is a bad ability. I want none of those things to happen to me. You didn’t say “If it could potentially happen, and doesn’t involve a saving throw, which suddenly makes it better”. </p><p></p><p>It just seems like an awfully poor way to judge an ability. If you as the DM decide to bring an enemy with marking into a fight, it creates a problem for the players to deal with. They may complain about it, but that doesn’t automatically make them bad. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sharpshooter does have some crazy damage, but it takes a while to get ridiculous.</p><p></p><p>By level 4: it is +4 damage on 3 attacks. AA gets +2d6 (average 7) +spell effect on 2 attacks</p><p>Level 5: +4 damage, 6 attacks. AA doesn’t change. By this point over the course of a single day, sharpshooter may edge out AA.</p><p>Level 11: +5 damage on 9 potential attacks, this is impressive. By this point they are clearly doing a pile of damage against a single target, so it becomes the odd question of trying to value damage vs the control of the spell arrows, or figuring in a perfect line arrow (Single attack hits 6 targets)</p><p></p><p>By level 11 a battlemaster can get +5d10+effects on various attacks, less damage unless they roll high, but again, how valuable is pushing or allowing an ally to move without triggering AOs.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I think as written a Sharpshooter archer fighter, is probably the highest DPR fighter in the game, especially when they take the sharpshooter feat. They may be a contender for top DPR in the game by level 20. Is this something we need to fix and if it is, how would we create something different that isn’t so powerful but still feels viable? Perhaps a penalty to hitting enemies you did not aim at? One thing as well, I definitely think the AA should get more magic arrows.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t voice their opinions, but most of the past 50-70 posts have only been about 4e marking mechanics and people’s opinions on 4e, and how they either hate it and want it to never appear or how they are excited it is finally being included in the game. </p><p></p><p>If we accept a single class that allows marking in the game, how does it hold up mechanically? Does it work as a viable character build for mechanical purposes? Does having a fighter whose main abilities work when it isn’t his turn an interesting choice to have? </p><p></p><p>Not should 4e marking exist, because obviously the developers think it should. And this isn’t 4e marking anyways, it is marking lite. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But, this is a player ability, and most people are perfectly fine if the monster doesn’t get a chance to prevent their primary features from working. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, let's just bold this so we don't get too distracted</p><p></p><p><strong>This is a player ability, not a monster ability barring the DM adding it to a monster for effect</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7704931, member: 6801228"] Just because something requires a save doesn’t mean the party is going to be able to make it. The meteor swarm example, while sleeping you are unconscious, while unconscious you automatically fail strength and dex saving throws. You take full damage, unless rogue (because evasion). The scry requires a save, but is the fighter really going to make a DC 28 wisdom save (Wizard, 18-20 level, 8+5 int+6 prof+5 knows the target well+4 has a possession of the target)? But that isn’t the point, you said that if you don’t like an ability or effect if it could potentially happen to your player, then it is a bad ability. I want none of those things to happen to me. You didn’t say “If it could potentially happen, and doesn’t involve a saving throw, which suddenly makes it better”. It just seems like an awfully poor way to judge an ability. If you as the DM decide to bring an enemy with marking into a fight, it creates a problem for the players to deal with. They may complain about it, but that doesn’t automatically make them bad. Sharpshooter does have some crazy damage, but it takes a while to get ridiculous. By level 4: it is +4 damage on 3 attacks. AA gets +2d6 (average 7) +spell effect on 2 attacks Level 5: +4 damage, 6 attacks. AA doesn’t change. By this point over the course of a single day, sharpshooter may edge out AA. Level 11: +5 damage on 9 potential attacks, this is impressive. By this point they are clearly doing a pile of damage against a single target, so it becomes the odd question of trying to value damage vs the control of the spell arrows, or figuring in a perfect line arrow (Single attack hits 6 targets) By level 11 a battlemaster can get +5d10+effects on various attacks, less damage unless they roll high, but again, how valuable is pushing or allowing an ally to move without triggering AOs. Yeah, I think as written a Sharpshooter archer fighter, is probably the highest DPR fighter in the game, especially when they take the sharpshooter feat. They may be a contender for top DPR in the game by level 20. Is this something we need to fix and if it is, how would we create something different that isn’t so powerful but still feels viable? Perhaps a penalty to hitting enemies you did not aim at? One thing as well, I definitely think the AA should get more magic arrows. I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t voice their opinions, but most of the past 50-70 posts have only been about 4e marking mechanics and people’s opinions on 4e, and how they either hate it and want it to never appear or how they are excited it is finally being included in the game. If we accept a single class that allows marking in the game, how does it hold up mechanically? Does it work as a viable character build for mechanical purposes? Does having a fighter whose main abilities work when it isn’t his turn an interesting choice to have? Not should 4e marking exist, because obviously the developers think it should. And this isn’t 4e marking anyways, it is marking lite. But, this is a player ability, and most people are perfectly fine if the monster doesn’t get a chance to prevent their primary features from working. Actually, let's just bold this so we don't get too distracted [B]This is a player ability, not a monster ability barring the DM adding it to a monster for effect[/B] [/QUOTE]
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