Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana Takes On Theurgy & War Magic
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 7711269" data-attributes="member: 6855537"><p>Huh. On the one hand, I'm not happy to see more wizard material. On the other, I like that they're going back and refining the more contentious classes.</p><p></p><p>Theurgy –</p><p></p><p>Arcane Initiate: Annoying to those who want to play a legit hybrid of the two classes because you have to fill out all your domain spells before picking and choosing, and overpowered from then on due to being able to cherry-pick with impunity.</p><p></p><p>Arcane Acolyte: Meh. More cleric pilfering but somehow armor and weapons cross the line.</p><p></p><p>Arcane Priest: More of the same. Given that some of these (like the UA forge priest) are built around the assumption of having armor/weapons this is more niche than one might initially assume.</p><p></p><p>Arcane High Priest: hahaha, is WotC serious right now? A wizard’s study grants them subclass-finishing talents earlier than the person being directly empowered by their god. Just wow, there’s stepping on someone’s toes, and then there’s a crowbar to the ankle.</p><p></p><p>I was already pretty predisposed to dislike the theurge before this, and this may have actually made that worse. This isn’t a fusion of the magic types, it’s a return to wizards being given carte Blanche to intrude into other class’ design space, in some ways better than the original class itself.</p><p></p><p>That being said, I can’t in all honesty say that this is truly imbalanced, I’m just tired of seeing the wizard being favored all the damn time. </p><p></p><p>War Magic –</p><p></p><p>Arcane Deflection: Pretty neat. The stipulation of cantrip-only and using a reaction make this seem fair.</p><p></p><p>Tactical Wit: Also fine. Kinda wish int to init was the baseline for the game, but I’ll take what I can get.</p><p></p><p>Power Surge: Simple nova option but it works. This is more or less the force damage option from the Lore Wizard tied to a short rest.</p><p></p><p>Durable Magic: Really good. In fact, I could see this going into “too good” territory for a late-game build of EK and War Mage, but that’s pretty niche. In more practical terms it synergizes well with Arcane Deflection.</p><p></p><p>Deflecting Shroud: More synergy and finally some more damage. Inconsistent though, since you really still want to avoid taking melee shots.</p><p></p><p>This one is…odd. I really like the basic design of it, but I’m confused as to how this is a war mage, since it really comes off as more of an abjurer, than anything*. Only one feature actually amps up offensive magic at all, and it’s fairly generic. I think that this would have been a much stronger option to put out in place of the bladesinger if they gave the war mage some weapon proficiencies and a second attack. As it stands, the synergy is really neat and I like what they’re going for, but it seems weak due to the fact that you still want to avoid melee/taking hits (because you’re bad at it still) but that’s the majority of the subclasses’ focus.</p><p></p><p>*I know it mentions abjuration specifically but it seems really focused on it, and on the self specifically. It doesn’t rearrange the battlefield for either friend or foe, it’s just designed for self-sufficiency.</p><p></p><p>In summary I'm not super enthused with either offering. Theurgy seems phoned in, pilfering as much as it can from another class in place of something new, and war mage is fine balance wise but seems to have identity issues.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dualazi, post: 7711269, member: 6855537"] Huh. On the one hand, I'm not happy to see more wizard material. On the other, I like that they're going back and refining the more contentious classes. Theurgy – Arcane Initiate: Annoying to those who want to play a legit hybrid of the two classes because you have to fill out all your domain spells before picking and choosing, and overpowered from then on due to being able to cherry-pick with impunity. Arcane Acolyte: Meh. More cleric pilfering but somehow armor and weapons cross the line. Arcane Priest: More of the same. Given that some of these (like the UA forge priest) are built around the assumption of having armor/weapons this is more niche than one might initially assume. Arcane High Priest: hahaha, is WotC serious right now? A wizard’s study grants them subclass-finishing talents earlier than the person being directly empowered by their god. Just wow, there’s stepping on someone’s toes, and then there’s a crowbar to the ankle. I was already pretty predisposed to dislike the theurge before this, and this may have actually made that worse. This isn’t a fusion of the magic types, it’s a return to wizards being given carte Blanche to intrude into other class’ design space, in some ways better than the original class itself. That being said, I can’t in all honesty say that this is truly imbalanced, I’m just tired of seeing the wizard being favored all the damn time. War Magic – Arcane Deflection: Pretty neat. The stipulation of cantrip-only and using a reaction make this seem fair. Tactical Wit: Also fine. Kinda wish int to init was the baseline for the game, but I’ll take what I can get. Power Surge: Simple nova option but it works. This is more or less the force damage option from the Lore Wizard tied to a short rest. Durable Magic: Really good. In fact, I could see this going into “too good” territory for a late-game build of EK and War Mage, but that’s pretty niche. In more practical terms it synergizes well with Arcane Deflection. Deflecting Shroud: More synergy and finally some more damage. Inconsistent though, since you really still want to avoid taking melee shots. This one is…odd. I really like the basic design of it, but I’m confused as to how this is a war mage, since it really comes off as more of an abjurer, than anything*. Only one feature actually amps up offensive magic at all, and it’s fairly generic. I think that this would have been a much stronger option to put out in place of the bladesinger if they gave the war mage some weapon proficiencies and a second attack. As it stands, the synergy is really neat and I like what they’re going for, but it seems weak due to the fact that you still want to avoid melee/taking hits (because you’re bad at it still) but that’s the majority of the subclasses’ focus. *I know it mentions abjuration specifically but it seems really focused on it, and on the self specifically. It doesn’t rearrange the battlefield for either friend or foe, it’s just designed for self-sufficiency. In summary I'm not super enthused with either offering. Theurgy seems phoned in, pilfering as much as it can from another class in place of something new, and war mage is fine balance wise but seems to have identity issues. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana Takes On Theurgy & War Magic
Top