ZEITGEIST Upgrading the PC's ship with Admiral o' the High Seas

[Tormyr]

No spoilers, please, as at least one of my players may check this thread.

I guess this question is mostly for @RangerWickett, but anyone else familiar with Admiral o' the High Seas, please chime in as well.

My PCs are off to Ber in adventure 6. The adventure mentions upgrading their ship so that it's value is up to 50,000 gp. I'm looking at the components in AotHS and had a question.

When comparing against what the PCs should have access to, do we compare level 6, the base level, or level 10, the resulting level after upgrades are applied?

According to AotHS, components have a level, which is roughly akin to when PCs of that level should have access to it. (Level 9 PCs roughly have access to level 9 components). Some components like hull and armaments have a base level that gets increased by sub components. For example the Roscommon starts with the following:

Hull (base level 6, sails, improved speed ×3, Level 10): 5,000 gp
Armaments (medium, broadsides, Level 10): 5,000 gp
Shocking ammunition (Level 8): 3,400 gp
Figurehead flagbearer (Level 4): 840 gp
Jaunter fey step (Level 10): 5,000 gp

The PCs first have access to the Roscommon when they are 6th level in Always on Time. The reason I ask is that the PCs are now 9th level and I was thinking this could be possible: retrofit the Roscommon to be fast enough to keep up to (or stay away from) a frigate, weapons to attack at range, and enough AC to not go down quickly in a fight.

Total Cost: 49,870
Hull (base level 8, sails, improved speed ×6, Level 15): 25,000 gp
Armaments (base level 10, medium, broadsides, extreme range, unmanned, Level 12): 13,750 gp
Figurehead flagbearer (Level 4): 840 gp
Shocking ammunition (Level 8): 3,400 gp
Jaunter fey step (Level 10): 5,000 gp
Ramprow (Level 3): 680
Defensible (Level 1): 360 gp
Copper Sheathing (Level 4): 840

 

[RangerWickett]

Uff, you're asking me to boot up a 10 year old OS in my brain. Okay, lemme try to remember how this system worked.

When comparing against what the PCs should have access to, do we compare level 6, the base level, or level 10, the resulting level after upgrades are applied?

I don't really understand the question, though. The party ought to be level, what, 11 when they start adventure 6? Aodhan just booped them into Paragon tier, yeah? (I assume you're playing 4th edition?)

If they've already got a ship valued at, um, 19,240gp, then they'd have just over 30K to spend on upgrades. And I am pretty sure the intention was that if you replace a 5K hull with a 25K hull, you just pay the difference (20K), not the total cost (25k).

So (assuming you have the costs accurate to the book, which I haven't looked at in like 4 years), yeah, the second version that comes to 49,870 looks fine.

My real caveat is that, honestly, we didn't do a great job in the AP making the naval combat that interesting, compared to the tactical options available in 4e PC-scale combats.

 

[Tormyr]

Sorry, hopefully I can simplify the question (with many words). If we ever meet in real life, I owe you a meal for not just this question, but Zeitgeist as a whole.

I'm using 5e, but I have the ship stats from the PF campaign and AotHS. My PCs are level 9 going into adventure 6 (which also happens to be the same as the PF campaign version).

My question is really about which components the PCs should be able to access. This is the first paragraph of "Ship Design" on page 62 of AotHS (emphasis mine).

Ships have several components—hull, armament, and various traits—which are priced independently. Each component has a “level” entry, which is a guideline for roughly what level the PCs should get access to such a component. The component’s level determines its price. Higher-level ships will often have numerous lower-level components. As it turns out, these prices work pretty well in both D&D and Pathfinder.

Certain components are easy. A portal pad (level 17) probably should not be accessible. However, hulls and armaments have 2 levels: the base level and the level after upgrades have been applied.

So the question: Can you remember which of these two levels for the hull (base or final) was intended to be used as the guide for what components the PCs should be able to access?

The Roscommon has the following hull when the PCs get it at 6th level in Adventure 4.
Hull (base level 6, sails, improved speed ×3, Level 10): 5,000 gp

Its base level is 6, and its final after 4 upgrades is 10. The base level happens to match the PCs level at the time, while the final level is almost twice the PCs' level.

I am thinking about the following retrofit for the Roscommon.
Hull (base level 8, sails, improved speed ×6, Level 15): 25,000 gp

The base level is less than the PCs' level, but the final level is much more.

I realize that it probably doesn't matter too much what they get, but I felt that something more survivable than the base Roscommon was probably a pretty good idea (especially if they keep it all the way through Diaspora).

So do you think that a hull should use the base level, the final level, or it doesn't really matter?

 

[RangerWickett]

Ah, the 'level you should get access' matters more for the magical stuff than just the raw stats stuff. Also, I think Roscommon and Khalundurrin were meant to carry the PCs through to later adventures without needing constant upgrades, to be pre-loaded with neat stuff.

A complication to answering this, though, is that AotHS was mostly built on the 4e chassis, and so things scale to level 30 instead of just 20. I don't know if I had a clear conversion ever written up between 4e and PF levels for the campaign, but the party in 4e would be level 11 or 12 going into adventure 6.

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about the disparity of levels between PCs and the ship's hull. It's the high-magic stuff that is more narrative-breaking.

 

[Tormyr]

Cool. The players liked when I pitched to them upgrades. Speed to rival a frigate. Guns that reach further than the opposition. Higher AC for the ship and cover for the crew. The RHC wants to take care of their best team.