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<blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 8107893" data-attributes="member: 6776887"><p>I came to slightly different/additional conclusions on some saving throws as I have had to figure out where to sort various 3.5 Fort/Ref/Will saving throws while doing conversions to 5e. Most of these are based on what is in the 5e rules, so there is not much in the way of imaginative ideas here. I found that often the consequence tells as much about which saving throw to use as the cause does. I seldom run into a situation that does not fall into one of these categories.</p><p></p><p>Strength saving throws physically resist changes to position such as:</p><p>+Forced movement from a physical source (wind, water, balor's whip, etc.)</p><p>+Being knocked prone</p><p>+Loss of strength (<em>rod of lordly might</em>, gold dragon)</p><p>+Avoiding being stuck in difficult terrain (gibbering mouther's aberrant ground)</p><p>-Exception: Recovering from <em>ray of enfeeblement</em> is Constitution</p><p></p><p>Dexterity saving throws limit the consequences when fast reflexes are needed in situations such as:</p><p>+Explosions</p><p>+Many breath weapons and area of effect spells</p><p>+A few cases of being stopped or knocked prone where being nimble is more important than strength (monk open hand technique, <em>grease</em>, <em>sleet storm</em>, <em>web</em>, ball bearings)</p><p>+Avoiding the consequences of many traps</p><p></p><p>Constitution saving throws keep the body healthy in situations such as:</p><p>+Resisting disease</p><p>+Resisting poison, necrotic, or thunder damage that cannot be dodged</p><p>+Resisting extreme heat or cold that cannot be dodged</p><p>+Not taking a level of exhaustion</p><p>+instadeath (<em>nine lives stealer</em>)</p><p>+Effects of gas (copper dragon)</p><p>+Avoiding loss of maximum hit points</p><p>+Many cases of being deafened, blinded, poisoned, stunned, petrified, or paralyzed (and some unconscious)</p><p>+Avoiding wounds that continue to bleed</p><p>+Maintaining concentration</p><p></p><p>Intelligence saving throws resist affects against your brain that link back to what you know or can figure out such as:</p><p>+Certain causes of insanity (<em>contact other plane</em>, <em>symbol</em> [insanity])</p><p>+Effects that limit what you know or think (<em>feeblemind</em>)</p><p>+Monsters that want your brains (intellect devourer, mind flayer)</p><p></p><p>Wisdom saving throws resist every effect against the mind that does not fall into Intelligence or Charisma such as:</p><p>+Being frightened (<em>pipes of haunting</em>, <em>rod of lordly might</em> (terrify), <em>wand of fear</em>, many monsters, <em>antipathy</em>, <em>fear</em>)</p><p>+Charm to view someone as a friend/trusted (<em>rod of rulership</em>, dryad, <em>animal friendship</em>, <em>charm person</em>, <em>enthrall</em>, <em>geas</em>)</p><p>+Mental domination (aboleth, gibbering mouther, harpy, foocubus, vampire, <em>dominate beast, dominate foo</em>, )</p><p>+Change in behavior/action economy (<em>robe of scintillating colors</em>, <em>slow</em>, <em>sanctuary</em>, <em>sympathy</em>, <em>bestow curse</em>, <em>command</em>, <em>compulsion</em>, <em>confusion</em>, <em>eyebite</em>, <em>hideous laughter</em>, <em>hold foo</em>, <em>hypnotic pattern</em>, <em>irresistible dance</em>, <em>suggestion</em>, <em>spirit guardians</em>, certain <em>symbols</em>,</p><p>+Turn effects (undead, unholy, etc.)</p><p>+Divination (<em>detect thoughts</em>, <em>scrying)</em></p><p>+Illusions (<em>dream)</em></p><p>+Enchantments (<em>modify memory)</em></p><p>+Psychic damage (<em>phantasmal killer</em>, <em>vicious mockery</em>, <em>weird)</em></p><p></p><p>Charisma saving throws resist effects against who you are, your place, your sense of self, etc. such as:</p><p>+Magical relocation/imprisonment (<em>mirror of life trapping</em>, <em>banishment</em>, <em>dispel evil and good</em> (dismissal), escape <em>forcecage</em>, enter/exit a <em>magic circle</em>, <em>planar binding</em>, <em>plane shift</em>)</p><p>+Possession (sentient items charm, ghost possession)</p><p>+Attacks on your "self" (<em>bane</em>, <em>divine word</em>, <em>hallow</em>, <em>magic jar</em>, <em>seeming</em>)</p><p>+Changing or analyzing emotions (sprite's Heart Sight, <em>calm emotions</em>, <em>symbol</em> (hopelessness), <em>zone of truth</em>)</p><p>-Exception: <em>imprisonment</em> is a Wisdom saving throw. Considering the magical transportation, changing of dimensions, restraint, etc., I think is should have been Charisma.</p><p>-Exception: <em>Polymorph</em> is a Wisdom saving throw. Considering that it changes what you are, I feel it should have been Charisma.</p><p>-Exception: <em>enlarge/reduce</em> is Constitution</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tormyr, post: 8107893, member: 6776887"] I came to slightly different/additional conclusions on some saving throws as I have had to figure out where to sort various 3.5 Fort/Ref/Will saving throws while doing conversions to 5e. Most of these are based on what is in the 5e rules, so there is not much in the way of imaginative ideas here. I found that often the consequence tells as much about which saving throw to use as the cause does. I seldom run into a situation that does not fall into one of these categories. Strength saving throws physically resist changes to position such as: +Forced movement from a physical source (wind, water, balor's whip, etc.) +Being knocked prone +Loss of strength ([I]rod of lordly might[/I], gold dragon) +Avoiding being stuck in difficult terrain (gibbering mouther's aberrant ground) -Exception: Recovering from [I]ray of enfeeblement[/I] is Constitution Dexterity saving throws limit the consequences when fast reflexes are needed in situations such as: +Explosions +Many breath weapons and area of effect spells +A few cases of being stopped or knocked prone where being nimble is more important than strength (monk open hand technique, [I]grease[/I], [I]sleet storm[/I], [I]web[/I], ball bearings) +Avoiding the consequences of many traps Constitution saving throws keep the body healthy in situations such as: +Resisting disease +Resisting poison, necrotic, or thunder damage that cannot be dodged +Resisting extreme heat or cold that cannot be dodged +Not taking a level of exhaustion +instadeath ([I]nine lives stealer[/I]) +Effects of gas (copper dragon) +Avoiding loss of maximum hit points +Many cases of being deafened, blinded, poisoned, stunned, petrified, or paralyzed (and some unconscious) +Avoiding wounds that continue to bleed +Maintaining concentration Intelligence saving throws resist affects against your brain that link back to what you know or can figure out such as: +Certain causes of insanity ([I]contact other plane[/I], [I]symbol[/I] [insanity]) +Effects that limit what you know or think ([I]feeblemind[/I]) +Monsters that want your brains (intellect devourer, mind flayer) Wisdom saving throws resist every effect against the mind that does not fall into Intelligence or Charisma such as: +Being frightened ([I]pipes of haunting[/I], [I]rod of lordly might[/I] (terrify), [I]wand of fear[/I], many monsters, [I]antipathy[/I], [I]fear[/I]) +Charm to view someone as a friend/trusted ([I]rod of rulership[/I], dryad, [I]animal friendship[/I], [I]charm person[/I], [I]enthrall[/I], [I]geas[/I]) +Mental domination (aboleth, gibbering mouther, harpy, foocubus, vampire, [I]dominate beast, dominate foo[/I], ) +Change in behavior/action economy ([I]robe of scintillating colors[/I], [I]slow[/I], [I]sanctuary[/I], [I]sympathy[/I], [I]bestow curse[/I], [I]command[/I], [I]compulsion[/I], [I]confusion[/I], [I]eyebite[/I], [I]hideous laughter[/I], [I]hold foo[/I], [I]hypnotic pattern[/I], [I]irresistible dance[/I], [I]suggestion[/I], [I]spirit guardians[/I], certain [I]symbols[/I], +Turn effects (undead, unholy, etc.) +Divination ([I]detect thoughts[/I], [I]scrying)[/I] +Illusions ([I]dream)[/I] +Enchantments ([I]modify memory)[/I] +Psychic damage ([I]phantasmal killer[/I], [I]vicious mockery[/I], [I]weird)[/I] Charisma saving throws resist effects against who you are, your place, your sense of self, etc. such as: +Magical relocation/imprisonment ([I]mirror of life trapping[/I], [I]banishment[/I], [I]dispel evil and good[/I] (dismissal), escape [I]forcecage[/I], enter/exit a [I]magic circle[/I], [I]planar binding[/I], [I]plane shift[/I]) +Possession (sentient items charm, ghost possession) +Attacks on your "self" ([I]bane[/I], [I]divine word[/I], [I]hallow[/I], [I]magic jar[/I], [I]seeming[/I]) +Changing or analyzing emotions (sprite's Heart Sight, [I]calm emotions[/I], [I]symbol[/I] (hopelessness), [I]zone of truth[/I]) -Exception: [I]imprisonment[/I] is a Wisdom saving throw. Considering the magical transportation, changing of dimensions, restraint, etc., I think is should have been Charisma. -Exception: [I]Polymorph[/I] is a Wisdom saving throw. Considering that it changes what you are, I feel it should have been Charisma. -Exception: [I]enlarge/reduce[/I] is Constitution [/QUOTE]
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