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Vancian Spellcasting's Real Problem - CoDzilla
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyICE" data-source="post: 5858147" data-attributes="member: 6684526"><p>Okay, lets focus here. You admit that the Cleric is better than the Fighter because of the self-buffs, heals (although CLW wands) and magical attacks were a good combination that made you much more potent. But this didn't come into effect in a group situation.</p><p></p><p>Okay, was two clerics better than a cleric and a fighter? Yes. The fighter brought only his BAB to the party, which was fairly easily replicated a number of ways. Meanwhile the two clerics had twice the buffs, twice the spells, twice the utility.</p><p></p><p>So... what did the fighter do? Uniquely, nothing. That's why they replaced him with the far superior Warblade. Sadly this was late in the development cycle of 3.5E. If Warblade/Cavalier/Swordsage had been in the first book then, well, it wouldn't have balanced the system, but it would have been a lot closer.</p><p></p><p>The funny thing? They used Powers, something that has constantly been kicked about as a dealbreaker by the 3.5E crowd. They were clearly a proto-4E design.</p><p></p><p>P.S. No one wants to play the cleric is a holdout from AD&D where they were fairly boring in pretty much every way. Spellcasting taking long amounts of time combined with the much weaker cleric spells to make their spellcasting feel largely redundant, and while their buffs were top-notch, playing the buff/healbot is just plain boring. 4E Leaders take a much more active role in the party's success.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyICE, post: 5858147, member: 6684526"] Okay, lets focus here. You admit that the Cleric is better than the Fighter because of the self-buffs, heals (although CLW wands) and magical attacks were a good combination that made you much more potent. But this didn't come into effect in a group situation. Okay, was two clerics better than a cleric and a fighter? Yes. The fighter brought only his BAB to the party, which was fairly easily replicated a number of ways. Meanwhile the two clerics had twice the buffs, twice the spells, twice the utility. So... what did the fighter do? Uniquely, nothing. That's why they replaced him with the far superior Warblade. Sadly this was late in the development cycle of 3.5E. If Warblade/Cavalier/Swordsage had been in the first book then, well, it wouldn't have balanced the system, but it would have been a lot closer. The funny thing? They used Powers, something that has constantly been kicked about as a dealbreaker by the 3.5E crowd. They were clearly a proto-4E design. P.S. No one wants to play the cleric is a holdout from AD&D where they were fairly boring in pretty much every way. Spellcasting taking long amounts of time combined with the much weaker cleric spells to make their spellcasting feel largely redundant, and while their buffs were top-notch, playing the buff/healbot is just plain boring. 4E Leaders take a much more active role in the party's success. [/QUOTE]
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