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Variants/Subclass for a DPR Rogue
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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7564318" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>Just pointing out that a “DPR” rogue that just boosts damage is like a “tank fighter” that just boosts AC or a controller wizard that stuns without saving throws. It does the job but imbalances the game. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Removing the skills to boost damage is a imbalanced trade. You’re giving up exploration powers for more combat power. Powers shouldn’t cross pillars. You wouldn’t trade a ribbon power for more combat. </p><p></p><p>Trading features you don’t want for feature that boost your combat power didn’t work well in 3e or 4e or Pathfinder. Plus it leads to a pretty one-trick-pony character where the PC ceases to be effective between combat. Which also leads to disruptive action as the player is incentivized to initiate combat because that’s the only time they get to be effective. (A lack of out-of-combat features is already a weak aspect of the fighter.)</p><p></p><p>But let’s dig into the design.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem with this is it causes multiclassing problems. One of the reasons barbarians don’t use Dexterity is to prevent rogue/ barbarians and pairing rage and sneak attack. This works against that. To say nothing of the ridiculousness of “sneak attacking” with a greataxe.</p><p></p><p>It also leads to “fun” combos, like Greatweapon Master and Polearm Master. PM alone would cause a potential spike in sneak attack damage.</p><p></p><p>Also, rogue subclasses only really grant combat bonuses at 3 and 17. In all subclasses, 9 and 13 are exploration or interaction features. They’re utility powers. So getting combat bonuses there goes against established design. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This feels like a swashbuckler that just has its powers renamed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I’d also be reluctant to add Maneuver dice to another subclass. WotC stopped adding those to fighter subclasses because feedback overwhelming said people preferred those to just be a battlemaster “thing”.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, design wise the assassin has the niche on spikes or extra damage. Every other combat or so it can get an auto-critical, which is a big damage spike with sneak attack. But that’s story dependant and unreliable. Which is why so many rogues go with two-weapon fighting: reliable damage by doubling the chances of landing one hit.</p><p></p><p>If I were designing a rogue class with the express purpose of boosting DPR, I’d focus less on spikes and more on reliable damage. Rerolling attacks and maybe even rerolling sneak attack damage. Perhaps applying Expertise to attack rolls. </p><p>Maybe a dagger wielding rogue that can hurl an offhand dagger as part of the Attack action. The extra d4s add a little damage, but not much but the advantage is the extra chance to deal sneak attack damage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7564318, member: 37579"] Just pointing out that a “DPR” rogue that just boosts damage is like a “tank fighter” that just boosts AC or a controller wizard that stuns without saving throws. It does the job but imbalances the game. Removing the skills to boost damage is a imbalanced trade. You’re giving up exploration powers for more combat power. Powers shouldn’t cross pillars. You wouldn’t trade a ribbon power for more combat. Trading features you don’t want for feature that boost your combat power didn’t work well in 3e or 4e or Pathfinder. Plus it leads to a pretty one-trick-pony character where the PC ceases to be effective between combat. Which also leads to disruptive action as the player is incentivized to initiate combat because that’s the only time they get to be effective. (A lack of out-of-combat features is already a weak aspect of the fighter.) But let’s dig into the design. The problem with this is it causes multiclassing problems. One of the reasons barbarians don’t use Dexterity is to prevent rogue/ barbarians and pairing rage and sneak attack. This works against that. To say nothing of the ridiculousness of “sneak attacking” with a greataxe. It also leads to “fun” combos, like Greatweapon Master and Polearm Master. PM alone would cause a potential spike in sneak attack damage. Also, rogue subclasses only really grant combat bonuses at 3 and 17. In all subclasses, 9 and 13 are exploration or interaction features. They’re utility powers. So getting combat bonuses there goes against established design. This feels like a swashbuckler that just has its powers renamed. I’d also be reluctant to add Maneuver dice to another subclass. WotC stopped adding those to fighter subclasses because feedback overwhelming said people preferred those to just be a battlemaster “thing”. Okay, design wise the assassin has the niche on spikes or extra damage. Every other combat or so it can get an auto-critical, which is a big damage spike with sneak attack. But that’s story dependant and unreliable. Which is why so many rogues go with two-weapon fighting: reliable damage by doubling the chances of landing one hit. If I were designing a rogue class with the express purpose of boosting DPR, I’d focus less on spikes and more on reliable damage. Rerolling attacks and maybe even rerolling sneak attack damage. Perhaps applying Expertise to attack rolls. Maybe a dagger wielding rogue that can hurl an offhand dagger as part of the Attack action. The extra d4s add a little damage, but not much but the advantage is the extra chance to deal sneak attack damage. [/QUOTE]
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