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[Very Long] Combat as Sport vs. Combat as War: a Key Difference in D&D Play Styles...
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<blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 5806124" data-attributes="member: 25619"><p><strong>CAW as serious gaming</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. I feel like I finally understand the root reason why 4e didn't work at all for me and most of my friends, but did work for some other folks (including some I game with).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not in my experience. I've always done CAW (in AD&D, 3e, 3.5e, RECON, and Boot Hill). Only in Boot Hill -- which has no magic or special effects -- did it tend to have a comedic tone.</p><p></p><p>I think the example of the bees and the owlbear is more of a gonzo one.</p><p></p><p>I'll give you a recent example from one of my campaigns of "CAW played straight".</p><p></p><p>In the Forge of Fury (my modified version of it), the PC's spotted an orc sentry in front of the old dwarven gates. So they decided to have a halfling PC walk up, in the open, with their packmule, and offer to trade some of the local ale (Falwur Stout), while the rogue tried to move closer.</p><p></p><p>Roll, roll. The orc doesn't fall for the obvious ruse. And the rogue is spotted. Ranged combat and melee by the rogue and halfling ensues. The second orc sentry, around the bend, manages to run for it, and alerts the other orc guards.</p><p></p><p>The PC's are now facing a "Saving Private Ryan" opening scene scenario, where orcish archers behind arrowslits are opening up on them as they come around the turn and run a gauntlet towards the main door.</p><p></p><p>The rogue uses smokesticks for cover, and the halfling cleric casts a similar mist spell. The orcs fire into the smoke and mist, with 50% miss chance if they guess the right square that a PC is in (random determination on that).</p><p></p><p>The wizard steps out of the smoke to use Magic Missile, the halfling cleric summons a Celestial Monkey BEHIND one of the orcish archers, and the rogue climbs in the smoke to an arrow slit, and ganks an archer with his rapier -- but it's too narrow to get in that way.</p><p></p><p>At the gate, the orcs try melee, then realize that won't work and try to close the door. The ranger gets there in time to keep the door open, but gets ganked in close combat. The paladin eventually gets there and defeats the orcs, and the PC's are in. More archers across the chasm bridge inside the gate (hey, dwarvish fortress, it's awesome) open up on the ranger and the paladin, but miss, then try to destroy the bridge. The wizard gets in there and takes them out before they can destroy the bridge. Then it's just mopping up.</p><p></p><p>But the PC's are badly depleted and wounded, and the orcs lock the heavy door at the other side of the chasm. So the PC's retreat, dragging the unconscious orc wounded with them and camping in the open, realizing they may have to fight their way in again.</p><p></p><p>In the morning, the orc leader -- who is a female cleric of the neutral goddess of caves and fertility -- offers parlay. They agree to a prisoner exchange -- the orcs have two random gnome prospectors as prisoner, and to give the orcs the ale in exchange for free passage through the orc's part of the dungeon, and info on what lies beyond. The deal is negotiated, and both sides make the deal.</p><p></p><p>That's old school, serious CAW. And to me, seriously awesome roleplaying and action by my players. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="haakon1, post: 5806124, member: 25619"] [b]CAW as serious gaming[/b] Agreed. I feel like I finally understand the root reason why 4e didn't work at all for me and most of my friends, but did work for some other folks (including some I game with). Not in my experience. I've always done CAW (in AD&D, 3e, 3.5e, RECON, and Boot Hill). Only in Boot Hill -- which has no magic or special effects -- did it tend to have a comedic tone. I think the example of the bees and the owlbear is more of a gonzo one. I'll give you a recent example from one of my campaigns of "CAW played straight". In the Forge of Fury (my modified version of it), the PC's spotted an orc sentry in front of the old dwarven gates. So they decided to have a halfling PC walk up, in the open, with their packmule, and offer to trade some of the local ale (Falwur Stout), while the rogue tried to move closer. Roll, roll. The orc doesn't fall for the obvious ruse. And the rogue is spotted. Ranged combat and melee by the rogue and halfling ensues. The second orc sentry, around the bend, manages to run for it, and alerts the other orc guards. The PC's are now facing a "Saving Private Ryan" opening scene scenario, where orcish archers behind arrowslits are opening up on them as they come around the turn and run a gauntlet towards the main door. The rogue uses smokesticks for cover, and the halfling cleric casts a similar mist spell. The orcs fire into the smoke and mist, with 50% miss chance if they guess the right square that a PC is in (random determination on that). The wizard steps out of the smoke to use Magic Missile, the halfling cleric summons a Celestial Monkey BEHIND one of the orcish archers, and the rogue climbs in the smoke to an arrow slit, and ganks an archer with his rapier -- but it's too narrow to get in that way. At the gate, the orcs try melee, then realize that won't work and try to close the door. The ranger gets there in time to keep the door open, but gets ganked in close combat. The paladin eventually gets there and defeats the orcs, and the PC's are in. More archers across the chasm bridge inside the gate (hey, dwarvish fortress, it's awesome) open up on the ranger and the paladin, but miss, then try to destroy the bridge. The wizard gets in there and takes them out before they can destroy the bridge. Then it's just mopping up. But the PC's are badly depleted and wounded, and the orcs lock the heavy door at the other side of the chasm. So the PC's retreat, dragging the unconscious orc wounded with them and camping in the open, realizing they may have to fight their way in again. In the morning, the orc leader -- who is a female cleric of the neutral goddess of caves and fertility -- offers parlay. They agree to a prisoner exchange -- the orcs have two random gnome prospectors as prisoner, and to give the orcs the ale in exchange for free passage through the orc's part of the dungeon, and info on what lies beyond. The deal is negotiated, and both sides make the deal. That's old school, serious CAW. And to me, seriously awesome roleplaying and action by my players. ;) [/QUOTE]
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