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[Very Long] Combat as Sport vs. Combat as War: a Key Difference in D&D Play Styles...
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<blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 5808894" data-attributes="member: 25619"><p>Whereas I'm fan of AD&D and 3e/3.5e, and I never liked 2nd Edition or 4e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have similar feelings about 1st edition Boot Hill, but I wouldn't say those are terrible games, just much simpler.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nod. The CaW/CaS thing is a brilliant insight, IMHO. Could it be refined? Sure, but it's a very sharp idea as is.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Nod, it does save trouble. Note that I didn't say I DISLIKE balance, I said I didn't like it as a major design goal in 4e. The truth is, I'm DISINTERESTED in balance. I don't MIND balance, but I wouldn't sacrifice to get it, as I think the 4e designers did.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It got rid of most of it. Most spells/powers recharge with a quick rest and you always go into a new combat at full HP -- not features of traditional D&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The first time my paladin killed a minion by marking him and watching him attack someone else, and I noticed that my paladin and the warlord never used basic attacks, but always powers, I realized we were all playing sorcerers, in 3e terms, with reloading spellslots at the end of each combat. The wizard was grinding with his Magic Missile (which originally require a To Hit roll) nearly every round, I was grinding with my Valiant Strike nearly every round, and the only difference seemed to be range. As for dailies, my paladins killer daily is a ranged "spelllike" effect that doesn't involve a weapon, but the wrath of the gawds. My Daily Utility -- much more useful -- is a buff spell that lasts one fight. I believe the Warlord's is a party buff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not going buy books for a game I dislike, or subscribe to a service for a game I don't like. I continued to buy WOTC minis occcassionally, and if they had published PDF's of traditional D&D materials I would have bought those too. If you call it a "boycott" to not buy stuff you don't like, well, OK then.</p><p></p><p>I did buy the 4e PHB on the first day, and even got it signed by the designers at the launch party . . . and I've played it somewhere over a dozen times, most recently in December. But for me, 4e is a complicated version of the Ravenloft boardgame -- it has some of the trappings of D&D and occassional flashes of D&D-like fun, but it's just a board game, not "real". I can tolerate playing it, but it doesn't live in my brain away from the table like traditional D&D does. Traditional D&D brings me to another world, one I daydream and scheme about a lot -- just like I do about war strategy computer games. The 4e campaign, meh, I think about it when I'm at table, never away from it -- like Tetris.</p><p></p><p>Man, I gotta stop typing and go play some "Making History 2". <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="haakon1, post: 5808894, member: 25619"] Whereas I'm fan of AD&D and 3e/3.5e, and I never liked 2nd Edition or 4e. I have similar feelings about 1st edition Boot Hill, but I wouldn't say those are terrible games, just much simpler. Nod. The CaW/CaS thing is a brilliant insight, IMHO. Could it be refined? Sure, but it's a very sharp idea as is. Nod, it does save trouble. Note that I didn't say I DISLIKE balance, I said I didn't like it as a major design goal in 4e. The truth is, I'm DISINTERESTED in balance. I don't MIND balance, but I wouldn't sacrifice to get it, as I think the 4e designers did. It got rid of most of it. Most spells/powers recharge with a quick rest and you always go into a new combat at full HP -- not features of traditional D&D. The first time my paladin killed a minion by marking him and watching him attack someone else, and I noticed that my paladin and the warlord never used basic attacks, but always powers, I realized we were all playing sorcerers, in 3e terms, with reloading spellslots at the end of each combat. The wizard was grinding with his Magic Missile (which originally require a To Hit roll) nearly every round, I was grinding with my Valiant Strike nearly every round, and the only difference seemed to be range. As for dailies, my paladins killer daily is a ranged "spelllike" effect that doesn't involve a weapon, but the wrath of the gawds. My Daily Utility -- much more useful -- is a buff spell that lasts one fight. I believe the Warlord's is a party buff. Agreed. I'm not going buy books for a game I dislike, or subscribe to a service for a game I don't like. I continued to buy WOTC minis occcassionally, and if they had published PDF's of traditional D&D materials I would have bought those too. If you call it a "boycott" to not buy stuff you don't like, well, OK then. I did buy the 4e PHB on the first day, and even got it signed by the designers at the launch party . . . and I've played it somewhere over a dozen times, most recently in December. But for me, 4e is a complicated version of the Ravenloft boardgame -- it has some of the trappings of D&D and occassional flashes of D&D-like fun, but it's just a board game, not "real". I can tolerate playing it, but it doesn't live in my brain away from the table like traditional D&D does. Traditional D&D brings me to another world, one I daydream and scheme about a lot -- just like I do about war strategy computer games. The 4e campaign, meh, I think about it when I'm at table, never away from it -- like Tetris. Man, I gotta stop typing and go play some "Making History 2". :) [/QUOTE]
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