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[Very Long] Combat as Sport vs. Combat as War: a Key Difference in D&D Play Styles...
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<blockquote data-quote="Daztur" data-source="post: 5810435" data-attributes="member: 55680"><p>I think that FATE does a pretty good job of modeling novel-style heroism (the hero defies the odds but generally wins anyway due to the players having partial narrative control). Basically a FATE character has a number of Aspects that describe part of your character, for example “Always Helps Those in Need” and (loosely) whenever that gets your character in trouble (for example, when it makes him rush into a burning building) you get a FATE point, you can then spend FATE points to exercise little bits of author-style narrative control (in ways that connect to your aspects) or to get a bonus to your rolls (in ways that connect to your aspects).</p><p></p><p>For example, my character got a FATE point from my GM for not backing down when faced with a powerful NPC because of my “My Father Told Me to Duel Often” and then I spent that FATE point to help win the fight. Basically what it does is make acting in-character (including doing heroics) be the most pragmatic option and works pretty well once you wrap your head around the logic of the FATE point economy.</p><p></p><p>For D&D I don’t really want any mechanics that promote heroism (this is just my personal tastes), I want adventurers not heroes. That means that the rare instances in which the PCs really stick their neck out stand out all the more since the player is really sticking his neck out and not just being heroic because the system is set up to make being heroic the pragmatic choice (as in FATE). But if you want mechanics that give you that kind of narrative control and incentives for characters to care about things more than gold and XP then a module with FATE-style mechanics could work well.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that you’re reading things into my posts that aren’t really there. Difficulty has nothing to do with either style. A lot of people (not me) call 4ed dumbed down and easy since a lot of the specific sorts of difficulty that they’re used to have been removed, but 4ed puts in other sources of difficulty to compensate. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup, there’s a lot of indie games I love (especially FATE) that are built on concepts that didn’t exist until relatively recently, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t old games that blow just about every new game out of the water at the particular things that they focus on. Just like I’d take the Saga of Egil Skallagrimson over many many many modern novels, no matter how much literary theory has developed since then.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup, in RPGs the adventure can always end abruptly and gruesomely. What I’m talking about is that, for example, when I played a 3ed campaign in which CLW wands were readily available any fight that didn’t have a chance of killing us all was boring since we could just heal up right afterwards. In D&D I don’t want every fight to be dancing on the line of a TPK in order to be fun and the last few games of 3ed that I played were exactly that. I’ve got a lot of love for 3ed, but damn does it require some house ruling to be fun.</p><p></p><p>CaS: </p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.intuitor.com/chess/images/Chess_Board.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>CaW:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.dip.soc.ucam.org/newstd.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Daztur, post: 5810435, member: 55680"] I think that FATE does a pretty good job of modeling novel-style heroism (the hero defies the odds but generally wins anyway due to the players having partial narrative control). Basically a FATE character has a number of Aspects that describe part of your character, for example “Always Helps Those in Need” and (loosely) whenever that gets your character in trouble (for example, when it makes him rush into a burning building) you get a FATE point, you can then spend FATE points to exercise little bits of author-style narrative control (in ways that connect to your aspects) or to get a bonus to your rolls (in ways that connect to your aspects). For example, my character got a FATE point from my GM for not backing down when faced with a powerful NPC because of my “My Father Told Me to Duel Often” and then I spent that FATE point to help win the fight. Basically what it does is make acting in-character (including doing heroics) be the most pragmatic option and works pretty well once you wrap your head around the logic of the FATE point economy. For D&D I don’t really want any mechanics that promote heroism (this is just my personal tastes), I want adventurers not heroes. That means that the rare instances in which the PCs really stick their neck out stand out all the more since the player is really sticking his neck out and not just being heroic because the system is set up to make being heroic the pragmatic choice (as in FATE). But if you want mechanics that give you that kind of narrative control and incentives for characters to care about things more than gold and XP then a module with FATE-style mechanics could work well. I think that you’re reading things into my posts that aren’t really there. Difficulty has nothing to do with either style. A lot of people (not me) call 4ed dumbed down and easy since a lot of the specific sorts of difficulty that they’re used to have been removed, but 4ed puts in other sources of difficulty to compensate. Yup, there’s a lot of indie games I love (especially FATE) that are built on concepts that didn’t exist until relatively recently, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t old games that blow just about every new game out of the water at the particular things that they focus on. Just like I’d take the Saga of Egil Skallagrimson over many many many modern novels, no matter how much literary theory has developed since then. Yup, in RPGs the adventure can always end abruptly and gruesomely. What I’m talking about is that, for example, when I played a 3ed campaign in which CLW wands were readily available any fight that didn’t have a chance of killing us all was boring since we could just heal up right afterwards. In D&D I don’t want every fight to be dancing on the line of a TPK in order to be fun and the last few games of 3ed that I played were exactly that. I’ve got a lot of love for 3ed, but damn does it require some house ruling to be fun. CaS: [img]http://www.intuitor.com/chess/images/Chess_Board.jpg[/img] CaW: [img]http://www.dip.soc.ucam.org/newstd.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]
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