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[Very Long] Combat as Sport vs. Combat as War: a Key Difference in D&D Play Styles...
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<blockquote data-quote="Rogue Agent" data-source="post: 5811427" data-attributes="member: 6673496"><p>Editions of the game that survived three years or less include:</p><p></p><p>OD&D (1974-1977)</p><p>Holmes (1977-1981)</p><p>Moldvay (1981-1983)</p><p></p><p>You could arguably toss 3.0 onto that pot, too, since it was completely replaced by 3.5 and its supplements taken out of print due to a lack of compatibility.</p><p></p><p>So, no, not "the first time in history". Particularly since 5E hasn't even arrived yet and almost certainly won't arrive before 4E's fifth birthday.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's possibly true for certain types of balanced games.</p><p></p><p>But for games that achieve balance the way 4E achieves balance (by explicitly and deliberately narrowing the range of play and the flexibility of character creation)? No. That's actually the exact opposite of reality.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this sums up why 4E isn't more style neutral: A "combat as war" system inherently allows you to also set up balanced encounters which allow for "combat as sport" play (since these are a subset of encounters within the broad range inherently supported by the "combat as war" system). But a "combat as sport" system is specifically narrowed in order to enforce the "combat as sport" style of play; which means that "combat as war" can't apply.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This, however, will only work insofar as the players are willing to accept CaS play. If they aren't -- and the system doesn't try to prohibit you from improving your odds through careful preparation -- then your CaS-Approved Encounters will be turned into cakewalks due to the preparation of your CaW players.</p><p></p><p>This is probably the worst combination, actually: A DM aiming for CaS while the players are playing in the mode of CaW. Since the DM isn't providing a full range of potential encounters, the players will never actually be challenged. Everything ends up landing well below their tolerance levels.</p><p></p><p>(It gets worse if the DM then tries to ramp up the difficulty of all his encounters in order to "make them challenging": Now instead of a proper mix of encounters, the PCs are facing "storm the castle and rescue Princess Buttercup" <em>every single time</em>.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Reminds me of <a href="http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/2055/roleplaying-games/fetishizing-balance" target="_blank">this article</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rogue Agent, post: 5811427, member: 6673496"] Editions of the game that survived three years or less include: OD&D (1974-1977) Holmes (1977-1981) Moldvay (1981-1983) You could arguably toss 3.0 onto that pot, too, since it was completely replaced by 3.5 and its supplements taken out of print due to a lack of compatibility. So, no, not "the first time in history". Particularly since 5E hasn't even arrived yet and almost certainly won't arrive before 4E's fifth birthday. That's possibly true for certain types of balanced games. But for games that achieve balance the way 4E achieves balance (by explicitly and deliberately narrowing the range of play and the flexibility of character creation)? No. That's actually the exact opposite of reality. And this sums up why 4E isn't more style neutral: A "combat as war" system inherently allows you to also set up balanced encounters which allow for "combat as sport" play (since these are a subset of encounters within the broad range inherently supported by the "combat as war" system). But a "combat as sport" system is specifically narrowed in order to enforce the "combat as sport" style of play; which means that "combat as war" can't apply. This, however, will only work insofar as the players are willing to accept CaS play. If they aren't -- and the system doesn't try to prohibit you from improving your odds through careful preparation -- then your CaS-Approved Encounters will be turned into cakewalks due to the preparation of your CaW players. This is probably the worst combination, actually: A DM aiming for CaS while the players are playing in the mode of CaW. Since the DM isn't providing a full range of potential encounters, the players will never actually be challenged. Everything ends up landing well below their tolerance levels. (It gets worse if the DM then tries to ramp up the difficulty of all his encounters in order to "make them challenging": Now instead of a proper mix of encounters, the PCs are facing "storm the castle and rescue Princess Buttercup" [i]every single time[/i].) Reminds me of [url=http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/2055/roleplaying-games/fetishizing-balance]this article[/url] [/QUOTE]
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