Victory *and* death: Would you enjoy this?

[Eytan Bernstein]

I think it's presumptuous for DMs to ever put a character in a situation where they must die, unless that's something that clearly would be ok with the player. I definitely disagree with the notion that if a player disagrees with you, screw them. The only thing a DM does not have control over is how PCs envision their characters. With some of my characters, death would not be a big deal. I'd like to die with certain heroic characters if it fits the game. If it's in a shared world, I almost always have a later plot involved.

A lot of DMs think that when their games, a character ends. That's not necessarily true. I like keeping a store of old characters in my mind, especially for fiction. I don't like resurrecting them if they die, so once they're gone, that's it for them. If a DM is going to do this, I think s/he must make sure that it is ok for the players. If it's fine, go for it - it could be a very cool ending. If it's not fine, well that's certainly the last time I'd be associating with said DM. I had this sort of thing sprung on me a couple times, once where I agreed to do it (though the DM bungled it) and the other where the DM just let a PC kill me in my sleep with no chance of survival (I later mentioned that said PC "convinced" me - in a rather devious way that I think his PC was incapable of - that he had everything under control and I could go regain my spells, when said PC had a 5 Charisma and couldn't convince anyone of anything). If you're gonna sacrifice Charisma (this is a special points based system we used where -5 charisma gives you +5 elsewhere), you have to pay for it. That game had all sorts of other problems, but it wouldn't have been a heroic end for a 9th level wizard to be murdered in his sleep by a party member. My experience has been that such events are often railroading and unless done extremely well, they will always seem cooler to the DM than the player. But perhaps, my RPG experiences are not overall, as positive as those of other people (I often suspect this). If the game really was as involving in roleplaying as I'd like (but never seem to find), I might go for this.

 

[WayneLigon]

So you've finally reached high levels, and you're obviously approaching the end of the campaign. And at the end, you succeed... sort of.

Maybe you succeed in saving the world, but you must sacrifice yourself to do so.

It can be fun if the players are all on board with this sort of thing, and have heroic motivations for their characters.

The last big, long 3.5 game I was in, we were heading towards that goal. We were 15th level and the big final encounter with the demon god of the undead we'd accidentaly freed when we were 1st was in sight. And due to some campaign twists and turns, we didn't think we were going to make it out alive.

And we were cool with it. One of the proudest scenes I've ever seen occured in that game, where our characters are discussing things, as we prepare to go defend a town beset by undead. We all as one acknowledged that it was unlikely we were coming out of all this whole situation alive, sane and happy. And we were ready, right then, to lay down our lives for the world if it meant putting this thing out of the world's misery. Not chaining him up like had been done twice before, but truly destroying him.

 

[Choranzanus]

I did this sort of thing as a DM in some deep past. Personally I have no problem with that, but it probably depends much on the players, how they will take it.

I see two basic ways how that could happen:

1. BBEG to PCs: "I am going but you guys are going with me!"

2. PCs to BBEG: "We are going but you are going with us!"

The second scenario is most likely incidental, while the first is totally engineered by DM. But even if you knew that BBEG is departing with a nuclear scale explosion, there is not much you can do about it, save perhaps let him do it somewhere near his Army of Evil.

 

[Henry]

I've never had the chance before, and personally I'd be up for it if it arose. In fact, the only time I HAVE had the opportunity, the DM informed us through a third party that a sacrifice was no longer necessary.

At the time, I was taking off my most powerful items, having them to an ally,and telling him my truename, with visions of Valhalla in my head...

 

[Arnwyn]

Would you find this sort of ending to a campaign dramatic and fun to play? Or frustrating and unfair? Would you enjoy this, assuming it was a change from the norm and not something that happens all the time? Or would it bother you that your character died, even though it was the last game of the campaign anyway and he accomplished something grand in the process?

Guaranteed last game of the campaign? Guaranteed that we'd never, ever, play those characters and/or continue the campaign timeline?

If so, I'd be fine with it.

 

[LostSoul]

Maybe you succeed in saving the world, but you must sacrifice yourself to do so.

As long as it's my choice, and "not saving the world" is a decent choice too, then sure.

It would suck if the choice was between sacrificing my PC in a heroic way, or not, and getting eaten by dread Cthulhu.

It would be awesome if the choice was between sacrificing my PC in a heroic way, or not, and living a happy, peaceful life with my lady love.

 

[hafrogman]

Quite possibly, I'd be most willing to end a campaign that way if I got to see what comes next for myself.

Bad:

GM: And you all die . . . but in doing so, you bring peace and prosperity to the land for generations. . . . next week, Monopoly!

Good:

GM: And you all die . . . but in doing so, you bring peace and prosperity to the land for generations. . . . next week, we start a new campaign. 200 years later, and the people still cheer you names as heroes. Roll up a level 1 character who reveres one of the legendary group.

 

[Conaill]

I think, 10 or even 5 years ago I wouldn't have enjoyed such an outcome. Not that I would have *hated* it, mind you, but I would definitely have preferred a happier ending for my character.

Since then, I've seen enough of my favorite characters being retired - dead or alive - that I've come to realize that *how* they retired is more important to me than whether they survived the end of the campaign.

I've had one character go out with the highest amount of damage sustained in a single round that any of us had ever seen (End of a Shadowrun one-shot - I had agreed beforehand with the DM that I would turn on the evil mastermind we were supposed to break out of prison. The fact that my PC had a grenade launcher built into his arm, with internal grenade magazine, didn't help much when the rest of the party turned on me ). Ah - good times!