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Vincent Baker on mechanics, system and fiction in RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9197056" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>While he's important, his work does not stand alone. </p><p>He stands not only on the shoulders of others, but with his wife, who is mentioned often in his designer's notes. And he in hers.</p><p>He was influenced by The Forge. And by Burning Wheel HQ - Luke Crane and Thor Olavsruud. And influenced them, too.</p><p></p><p>Of major importance? For RPGs, he certainly falls <em>after </em>Gary Gygax, David Arneson, and David Weseley. I don't much care for Gygax, but no one can eclipse him but Daves Arneson and Weseley... Weseley and Arneson literally create the genre out of minis wargaming. Gygax and Arneson get it into print. </p><p></p><p>It's arguable whether or not he's more important than the greats of that first generation after D&D OE... the outside-TSR crowd... Ken St Andre (T&T), Bear Peters (T&T), MAR Phil Barker (EPT), Greg Stafford (RQ), Ray Tourney (RQ, BRP), Steve Perrin (RQ, BRP), Marc W. Miller (Traveller), Frank Chadwick (En Guard), David Hargrave (Arduin)...</p><p>But without them, we wouldn't get the widening out in approaches both mechanical and mental. Approaches which lead eventually to Marc Rein-Hagen (WoD)... and WoD prompts Ron Edwards, and he does the RPG Forge site...</p><p></p><p>There are a lot of people using AWE/PBTA to write new games - but are they a majority of players? Doubtful. Vincent has done games before and since that don't use AW's engine.</p><p></p><p>No designer stands alone in the RPG field, because no design is without influences from others... including Weseley's influence from educational sims, wargames, and Diplomacy...</p><p></p><p>And wargames? Well, the initators are truly lost to time, but the modernish ones begin with Henry Michael Temple and HG Wells... Kriegsspiele from HMT, and Little Wars from HG Wells... but both cite other sources...</p><p></p><p>I suspect we can all thank some unknown from either the Harrappan culture or the Akkadians, or maybe even older... That person, who first decided that rules make a game more interesting... He's definitely as important... </p><p></p><p>Vincent Baker is one of the greats, but he's absolutely not the most important designer or RPGs. He can't be, since he doesn't create the genre - hell, he's not even the creator of storygames as a distinct subset - tho' he's been influential in many - both directly and indirectly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9197056, member: 6779310"] While he's important, his work does not stand alone. He stands not only on the shoulders of others, but with his wife, who is mentioned often in his designer's notes. And he in hers. He was influenced by The Forge. And by Burning Wheel HQ - Luke Crane and Thor Olavsruud. And influenced them, too. Of major importance? For RPGs, he certainly falls [I]after [/I]Gary Gygax, David Arneson, and David Weseley. I don't much care for Gygax, but no one can eclipse him but Daves Arneson and Weseley... Weseley and Arneson literally create the genre out of minis wargaming. Gygax and Arneson get it into print. It's arguable whether or not he's more important than the greats of that first generation after D&D OE... the outside-TSR crowd... Ken St Andre (T&T), Bear Peters (T&T), MAR Phil Barker (EPT), Greg Stafford (RQ), Ray Tourney (RQ, BRP), Steve Perrin (RQ, BRP), Marc W. Miller (Traveller), Frank Chadwick (En Guard), David Hargrave (Arduin)... But without them, we wouldn't get the widening out in approaches both mechanical and mental. Approaches which lead eventually to Marc Rein-Hagen (WoD)... and WoD prompts Ron Edwards, and he does the RPG Forge site... There are a lot of people using AWE/PBTA to write new games - but are they a majority of players? Doubtful. Vincent has done games before and since that don't use AW's engine. No designer stands alone in the RPG field, because no design is without influences from others... including Weseley's influence from educational sims, wargames, and Diplomacy... And wargames? Well, the initators are truly lost to time, but the modernish ones begin with Henry Michael Temple and HG Wells... Kriegsspiele from HMT, and Little Wars from HG Wells... but both cite other sources... I suspect we can all thank some unknown from either the Harrappan culture or the Akkadians, or maybe even older... That person, who first decided that rules make a game more interesting... He's definitely as important... Vincent Baker is one of the greats, but he's absolutely not the most important designer or RPGs. He can't be, since he doesn't create the genre - hell, he's not even the creator of storygames as a distinct subset - tho' he's been influential in many - both directly and indirectly. [/QUOTE]
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