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Vincent Baker on mechanics, system and fiction in RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9201771" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>No they're not! If the roll is 6-, the GM is entitled to make as hard and direct a move as they like.</p><p></p><p>Here's an example, from the AW rulebook (pp 155-56):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">“So, Marie: at home, pacing, armed, locked in, yeah? They arrive suddenly at your door with a solid kick, your whole door rattles.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">You hear Whackoff’s voice: ‘she’s expecting us I guess.’” I’m <strong>announcing future badness</strong>.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“I go to the peep hole,” she says. “There are three of them?”</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“Yep,” I say. “Whackoff on your left, Plover and Church Head are doing something on your right, Plover’s back’s to you — and you</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">hear a cough-cough-rrrrar sound and Plover’s at the door with a chainsaw. What do you do?” I’m <strong>putting her in a spot</strong>.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“I <strong>read the situation</strong>. What’s my best escape route?” She rolls+sharp and — <oops> — misses. “Oh no,” she says.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">I can make as hard and direct a move as I like. The brutes’ threat move I like for this is <strong>make a coordinated attack with a coherent</strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>objective</strong>, so here it comes.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“You’re looking out your (barred, 4th-story) window as though it were an escape route,” I say, “and they don’t chop your door all</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">the way down, just through the top hinge, and then they lean on it to make a 6-inch space. The door’s creaking and snapping at</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">the bottom hinge. And they put a grenade through like this—” I hold up my fist for the grenade and slap it with my other hand,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">like whacking a croquet ball.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“I dive for—”</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Sorry, I’m still making my hard move. This is all misdirection.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“Nope. They cooked it off and it goes off practically at your feet. Let’s see … 4-harm area messy, a grenade. You have armor?”</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“1-armor.”</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“Oh yes, your armored corset. Good! You take 3-harm.” She marks it on her character sheet. “Make <strong>the harm move</strong>. Roll+3.”</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">She hits the roll with a 9. I get to choose from the move’s 7–9 list, and I decide that she <strong>loses her footing</strong>.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">“For a minute you can’t tell what’s wrong, and you have this sensation, it seems absurd now but I guess it makes sense, that you hit the ceiling. Maybe you tripped on something and fell, and hit it that way? Then gradually you get your senses back, and that noise you thought was your skull cracking is actually your door splitting and splintering down, and that noise you thought was your blood is their chainsaw. What do you do?”</p><p></p><p>The GM does not say "yes" to Marie's player's declaration about looking for a way out.</p><p></p><p>No you can't!</p><p></p><p>The idea of <em>announcing future badness</em> is not part of (for instance) Moldvay Basic. The ideal for the referee in classic D&D is <em>neutrality</em>: to present the situation extrapolated from the dungeon key as fairly as possible. This is nothing like the approach of the AW MC (beyond the fact that they are both ways of adjudicating a RPG).</p><p></p><p>I've made no such assertion. I have asserted that Vincent Baker has a lot of intelligent stuff to say about RPG design. The game I have praised the highest in this thread is Burning Wheel.</p><p></p><p>You seem to mistake admiration for Baker as a designer and an analyst/critic, and the rebuttal of mistaken claims about AW coming from you and others, as <em>assertions that AW is better than anything else</em>. To me, that seems like some sort of projection.</p><p></p><p>I'm sure someone, somewhere, thinks there is no difference to be drawn - in terms of storytelling, drama, etc - between the time they leaped up in excitement, having finally solved the last clue on the crossword they were solving, and (say) Casablanca, or Nine Days, or a novel like The Quiet American.</p><p></p><p>I am not that person. I don't play RPGs so that I can have fond memories of lucky dice rolls. I am looking for something different, and more immediately dramatic and compelling, when I play a RPG.</p><p></p><p>Knock yourselves out!</p><p></p><p>The reason I'm an expert in the fields in which I am expert in because of my years of work in them, my engagement with my peers (and my superiors), my work in relation to teaching, etc. It is attested by my qualifications, my publications, my prizes and my students.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9201771, member: 42582"] No they're not! If the roll is 6-, the GM is entitled to make as hard and direct a move as they like. Here's an example, from the AW rulebook (pp 155-56): [indent]“So, Marie: at home, pacing, armed, locked in, yeah? They arrive suddenly at your door with a solid kick, your whole door rattles. You hear Whackoff’s voice: ‘she’s expecting us I guess.’” I’m [B]announcing future badness[/B]. “I go to the peep hole,” she says. “There are three of them?” “Yep,” I say. “Whackoff on your left, Plover and Church Head are doing something on your right, Plover’s back’s to you — and you hear a cough-cough-rrrrar sound and Plover’s at the door with a chainsaw. What do you do?” I’m [B]putting her in a spot[/B]. “I [B]read the situation[/B]. What’s my best escape route?” She rolls+sharp and — <oops> — misses. “Oh no,” she says. I can make as hard and direct a move as I like. The brutes’ threat move I like for this is [b]make a coordinated attack with a coherent objective[/b], so here it comes. “You’re looking out your (barred, 4th-story) window as though it were an escape route,” I say, “and they don’t chop your door all the way down, just through the top hinge, and then they lean on it to make a 6-inch space. The door’s creaking and snapping at the bottom hinge. And they put a grenade through like this—” I hold up my fist for the grenade and slap it with my other hand, like whacking a croquet ball. “I dive for—” Sorry, I’m still making my hard move. This is all misdirection. “Nope. They cooked it off and it goes off practically at your feet. Let’s see … 4-harm area messy, a grenade. You have armor?” “1-armor.” “Oh yes, your armored corset. Good! You take 3-harm.” She marks it on her character sheet. “Make [B]the harm move[/B]. Roll+3.” She hits the roll with a 9. I get to choose from the move’s 7–9 list, and I decide that she [B]loses her footing[/B]. “For a minute you can’t tell what’s wrong, and you have this sensation, it seems absurd now but I guess it makes sense, that you hit the ceiling. Maybe you tripped on something and fell, and hit it that way? Then gradually you get your senses back, and that noise you thought was your skull cracking is actually your door splitting and splintering down, and that noise you thought was your blood is their chainsaw. What do you do?”[/indent] The GM does not say "yes" to Marie's player's declaration about looking for a way out. No you can't! The idea of [I]announcing future badness[/I] is not part of (for instance) Moldvay Basic. The ideal for the referee in classic D&D is [I]neutrality[/I]: to present the situation extrapolated from the dungeon key as fairly as possible. This is nothing like the approach of the AW MC (beyond the fact that they are both ways of adjudicating a RPG). I've made no such assertion. I have asserted that Vincent Baker has a lot of intelligent stuff to say about RPG design. The game I have praised the highest in this thread is Burning Wheel. You seem to mistake admiration for Baker as a designer and an analyst/critic, and the rebuttal of mistaken claims about AW coming from you and others, as [I]assertions that AW is better than anything else[/I]. To me, that seems like some sort of projection. I'm sure someone, somewhere, thinks there is no difference to be drawn - in terms of storytelling, drama, etc - between the time they leaped up in excitement, having finally solved the last clue on the crossword they were solving, and (say) Casablanca, or Nine Days, or a novel like The Quiet American. I am not that person. I don't play RPGs so that I can have fond memories of lucky dice rolls. I am looking for something different, and more immediately dramatic and compelling, when I play a RPG. Knock yourselves out! The reason I'm an expert in the fields in which I am expert in because of my years of work in them, my engagement with my peers (and my superiors), my work in relation to teaching, etc. It is attested by my qualifications, my publications, my prizes and my students. [/QUOTE]
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