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Wall of Force question
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<blockquote data-quote="Jason O. Ross" data-source="post: 7285458" data-attributes="member: 6893742"><p><strong>moving flying creature vs wall of force</strong></p><p></p><p>I had this come up as well in one of my games. </p><p>- Wall needs to be flat ie no turns </p><p>- DC 40 spot check to notice it</p><p>- doesn't need to be anchored </p><p>Where it got tricky was the damage. </p><p>The speed of the dragon was 240 ft per round. doing some math that came out to ~30 mph</p><p>I rulled that this was fall damage.</p><p></p><p>"Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position."</p><p></p><p>So that is max fall damage from the initial crash then ADDITIONAL fall damage from hitting the ground. It was 60 feet up at the time (ie max range for its breath weapon to effect the PCs) so it took an additional 6d6 pts. </p><p></p><p>Additionally for those of you who say the dragon would get a perception check I say nay.</p><p></p><p> "Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to <strong>observable</strong> stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action."</p><p></p><p>So first the wall is Invisible (not generally "observable")</p><p>Second the dragon in question is flying = move action in preparation for a strafing breath weapon attack</p><p>so unless you have true seeing or see invisibility up no way the dragon just notices it in time.</p><p></p><p>In summation:</p><p>A spot check is not a reflex save.</p><p>and 26d6 from a 6th level spell is incredible</p><p>Players also wanted the Dragon to have (at least) the dazed condition and having been in a 30mph crash myself I logically agreed.</p><p></p><p>Also because it was brought up in earlier posts the question of Blind Sense needs to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>"Blindsense lets a creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/special-abilities#TOC-Blindsight-and-Blindsense" target="_blank">blindsight</a>. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception" target="_blank">Perception</a> checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent that cannot be seen has total <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/combat#TOC-Concealment" target="_blank">concealment</a> (50% miss chance) against a creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/combat#TOC-Concealment" target="_blank">concealment</a>. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Dexterity-Dex-" target="_blank">Dexterity</a> bonus to <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/combat#TOC-Armor-Class" target="_blank">Armor Class</a> against attacks from creatures it cannot see."</p><p></p><p>Blindsense is not blindsight and as such does not allow seeing of invisible inanimate non-moving objects like a rock, piece of equipment. The key here is the part "Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense" why is this the case? Because it can not "see" where its going. </p><p></p><p>Could the dragon notice a wall of force if it was looking for one? Yes absolutly as DM I would even give it a bonus to do so. </p><p>Looking at it from a RAW perspective I can't see giving it a free perception check for invisible non creature objects in its flight path in the middle of combat unless it could be reasonably assumed it was looking for said objects.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jason O. Ross, post: 7285458, member: 6893742"] [b]moving flying creature vs wall of force[/b] I had this come up as well in one of my games. - Wall needs to be flat ie no turns - DC 40 spot check to notice it - doesn't need to be anchored Where it got tricky was the damage. The speed of the dragon was 240 ft per round. doing some math that came out to ~30 mph I rulled that this was fall damage. "Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position." So that is max fall damage from the initial crash then ADDITIONAL fall damage from hitting the ground. It was 60 feet up at the time (ie max range for its breath weapon to effect the PCs) so it took an additional 6d6 pts. Additionally for those of you who say the dragon would get a perception check I say nay. "Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to [B]observable[/B] stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action." So first the wall is Invisible (not generally "observable") Second the dragon in question is flying = move action in preparation for a strafing breath weapon attack so unless you have true seeing or see invisibility up no way the dragon just notices it in time. In summation: A spot check is not a reflex save. and 26d6 from a 6th level spell is incredible Players also wanted the Dragon to have (at least) the dazed condition and having been in a 30mph crash myself I logically agreed. Also because it was brought up in earlier posts the question of Blind Sense needs to be addressed. "Blindsense lets a creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/special-abilities#TOC-Blindsight-and-Blindsense"]blindsight[/URL]. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception"]Perception[/URL] checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent that cannot be seen has total [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/combat#TOC-Concealment"]concealment[/URL] (50% miss chance) against a creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/combat#TOC-Concealment"]concealment[/URL]. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Dexterity-Dex-"]Dexterity[/URL] bonus to [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/combat#TOC-Armor-Class"]Armor Class[/URL] against attacks from creatures it cannot see." Blindsense is not blindsight and as such does not allow seeing of invisible inanimate non-moving objects like a rock, piece of equipment. The key here is the part "Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense" why is this the case? Because it can not "see" where its going. Could the dragon notice a wall of force if it was looking for one? Yes absolutly as DM I would even give it a bonus to do so. Looking at it from a RAW perspective I can't see giving it a free perception check for invisible non creature objects in its flight path in the middle of combat unless it could be reasonably assumed it was looking for said objects. [/QUOTE]
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