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Wandering Monsters - Golems
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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6063162" data-attributes="member: 1210"><p>Well, I wouldn't bet $100 on it, but I'm pretty sure the elemental spirit thingie has received at least passing mention in every edition from 1e on up.</p><p></p><p>Regardless, though, that is hardly the point- that doesn't address your question. I'd say that, for many campaigns, it doesn't add a thing.</p><p></p><p>However. </p><p></p><p>The thing about it is, a lot of long-running campaigns seize little bits of D&D minutiae like this and run with them. Somewhere, some group is playing a game that they've been playing for eight, ten, twenty years where the elemental spirit line DOES matter. So, to me, anyway, the real question becomes not "What does this add?" but "What would taking it out add?"</p><p></p><p>If it doesn't improve things- and honestly, I don't see how it would- all taking a little flavor out does is genericize the monster and make it harder for that group where the elemental spirits matter to convert to 5e (or whatever version of the game).</p><p></p><p>2e, until fairly late in its lifespan, disregarded a lot of D&D history (e.g. demons and devils and their like), even though those elements had been pretty central in a lot of campaigns and even in some major adventure arcs (just imagine the GDQ series with no references to demons- uhhh, what??). This was one of the edition's least popular elements, at least from the groups I played with or talked to. Note that demons and devils and the rest all came back with a vengeance, and long before the end of 2e. Even the words "demon" and "devil" started to sneak back in, at least here and there and in some ads (remember "What the hell is a baatezu??"). Likewise, 4e ignored a lot of D&D history- suddenly succubi were devils, for instance- in favor of a more self-contained and consistent world. But making the "core D&D world" more consistent at the cost of telling people that their campaigns' histories, and some important elements of them such as that year-long run in the Abyss against the demon queen Malcanthet and her succubi demon lackeys, were now in contradiction to core game elements, was putting the <em>game system</em> ahead of the <em>game people were playing.</em> It was, IMHO, a huge mistake in 2e and again in 4e. Clearly, the 5e designers have realized that change for the sake of change is only going to alienate people who have invested in the "old version" in their campaigns (in other words, making the succubus a devil doesn't work if their demonic nature has been a major campaign element, and a significant rewrite of the planes is only going to aggravate Planescape players and make them turn up their noses). </p><p></p><p>Gah... I'm all kinds of long-winded today! </p><p></p><p>TL;DR version- If it's tradition, changing it WILL alienate some existing gamers, especially if that element (the elemental spirit animating golems) has been important in their campaign. There ought to be a far better reason than "Well, it doesn't add anything to my game" to make a flavor change like that- especially as the flavor does no harm.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 6063162, member: 1210"] Well, I wouldn't bet $100 on it, but I'm pretty sure the elemental spirit thingie has received at least passing mention in every edition from 1e on up. Regardless, though, that is hardly the point- that doesn't address your question. I'd say that, for many campaigns, it doesn't add a thing. However. The thing about it is, a lot of long-running campaigns seize little bits of D&D minutiae like this and run with them. Somewhere, some group is playing a game that they've been playing for eight, ten, twenty years where the elemental spirit line DOES matter. So, to me, anyway, the real question becomes not "What does this add?" but "What would taking it out add?" If it doesn't improve things- and honestly, I don't see how it would- all taking a little flavor out does is genericize the monster and make it harder for that group where the elemental spirits matter to convert to 5e (or whatever version of the game). 2e, until fairly late in its lifespan, disregarded a lot of D&D history (e.g. demons and devils and their like), even though those elements had been pretty central in a lot of campaigns and even in some major adventure arcs (just imagine the GDQ series with no references to demons- uhhh, what??). This was one of the edition's least popular elements, at least from the groups I played with or talked to. Note that demons and devils and the rest all came back with a vengeance, and long before the end of 2e. Even the words "demon" and "devil" started to sneak back in, at least here and there and in some ads (remember "What the hell is a baatezu??"). Likewise, 4e ignored a lot of D&D history- suddenly succubi were devils, for instance- in favor of a more self-contained and consistent world. But making the "core D&D world" more consistent at the cost of telling people that their campaigns' histories, and some important elements of them such as that year-long run in the Abyss against the demon queen Malcanthet and her succubi demon lackeys, were now in contradiction to core game elements, was putting the [i]game system[/i] ahead of the [i]game people were playing.[/i] It was, IMHO, a huge mistake in 2e and again in 4e. Clearly, the 5e designers have realized that change for the sake of change is only going to alienate people who have invested in the "old version" in their campaigns (in other words, making the succubus a devil doesn't work if their demonic nature has been a major campaign element, and a significant rewrite of the planes is only going to aggravate Planescape players and make them turn up their noses). Gah... I'm all kinds of long-winded today! TL;DR version- If it's tradition, changing it WILL alienate some existing gamers, especially if that element (the elemental spirit animating golems) has been important in their campaign. There ought to be a far better reason than "Well, it doesn't add anything to my game" to make a flavor change like that- especially as the flavor does no harm. [/QUOTE]
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