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War cleric and spiritual weapon vs. gwm
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<blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet" data-source="post: 8006272" data-attributes="member: 6689161"><p>TLDR: great weapon master is under rated for war domain clerics due to its competition for bonus actions and single attacks of clerics. Likewise, It does not pair well with spiritual weapon; but we might not need spiritual weapon as much as we think.</p><p>———————————</p><p>I am a big fan of battling clerics back to 1e days.</p><p></p><p>I have been planning a fighting cleric once again.</p><p></p><p>So much about melee clerics suggests the use of spiritual weapon in lieu of say war cleric extra attack or even use of great weapon master with its bonus attack on a crit or kill.</p><p></p><p>however, I started looking at the opportunity cost. Clerics have only a handful of 2nd level spells in a day. For the price, I could cast hold person or a number of other good spells.</p><p></p><p>I am thinking that there is less an issue with bonus actions and gwm/war priest after all.</p><p></p><p>As a war cleric, you can use war priest. It might be good for a combat or two before depleted. It seems many low and mid level combats are fairly short.</p><p></p><p>coupled with great weapon master and the war priest’s channel divinity, Spiritual weapon is nice but replaceable in several melees a </p><p>I am looking the channel divinity a bit closer. 3 times a short rest by 6th probably translates into 9 uses a day. Than means +10 on perhaps 9 attacks a day.</p><p></p><p>I would feel very comfortable using -5/+10 on those attacks I think. If a majority of those hit, there is a good amount of damage implied.</p><p></p><p>of course one or more might drop a creature leading to a bonus attack aside from war priest, at least at low and mid levels.</p><p></p><p>do I think spiritual weapon is a poor choice? Not at all. It’s nice for clerics. My thesis here is perhaps more about great weapon master and war domain</p><p></p><p>In most instances I see the opinion that it is poorly spent on a war cleric wanting to do well in melee, and I am starting to disagree.</p><p></p><p>if we look at resource expenditure and total damage dealt in a day, I can see that leaning more on GWM vs spiritual weapon might save some spells.</p><p></p><p>again, the war priest gets used up in a day but the channel divinity steps in with a number of strikes a day and many at +10.</p><p></p><p>if we use an extra hold person or blindness/deafness in place of spiritual weapon in some combats, I think We can be less concerned with the competition for that coveted bonus action.</p><p></p><p>So in short, I think great weapon master and war priest and channel divinity do well with bonus actions too. And I do not think their competition for the bonus action is overly redundant or crippling and they may be more potent than the typical set up with spiritual weapon</p><p></p><p>add in greenflame blade or booming blade and would only make gwm more fearsome and likely to kick of a bonus attack after level 5.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Warpiglet, post: 8006272, member: 6689161"] TLDR: great weapon master is under rated for war domain clerics due to its competition for bonus actions and single attacks of clerics. Likewise, It does not pair well with spiritual weapon; but we might not need spiritual weapon as much as we think. ——————————— I am a big fan of battling clerics back to 1e days. I have been planning a fighting cleric once again. So much about melee clerics suggests the use of spiritual weapon in lieu of say war cleric extra attack or even use of great weapon master with its bonus attack on a crit or kill. however, I started looking at the opportunity cost. Clerics have only a handful of 2nd level spells in a day. For the price, I could cast hold person or a number of other good spells. I am thinking that there is less an issue with bonus actions and gwm/war priest after all. As a war cleric, you can use war priest. It might be good for a combat or two before depleted. It seems many low and mid level combats are fairly short. coupled with great weapon master and the war priest’s channel divinity, Spiritual weapon is nice but replaceable in several melees a I am looking the channel divinity a bit closer. 3 times a short rest by 6th probably translates into 9 uses a day. Than means +10 on perhaps 9 attacks a day. I would feel very comfortable using -5/+10 on those attacks I think. If a majority of those hit, there is a good amount of damage implied. of course one or more might drop a creature leading to a bonus attack aside from war priest, at least at low and mid levels. do I think spiritual weapon is a poor choice? Not at all. It’s nice for clerics. My thesis here is perhaps more about great weapon master and war domain In most instances I see the opinion that it is poorly spent on a war cleric wanting to do well in melee, and I am starting to disagree. if we look at resource expenditure and total damage dealt in a day, I can see that leaning more on GWM vs spiritual weapon might save some spells. again, the war priest gets used up in a day but the channel divinity steps in with a number of strikes a day and many at +10. if we use an extra hold person or blindness/deafness in place of spiritual weapon in some combats, I think We can be less concerned with the competition for that coveted bonus action. So in short, I think great weapon master and war priest and channel divinity do well with bonus actions too. And I do not think their competition for the bonus action is overly redundant or crippling and they may be more potent than the typical set up with spiritual weapon add in greenflame blade or booming blade and would only make gwm more fearsome and likely to kick of a bonus attack after level 5. [/QUOTE]
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