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Warden L6 Utility "Bears Endurance"
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5723737" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Let's compare this to Shield.</p><p></p><p>Trigger: You are hit by an attack.</p><p>Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus to AC and Reflex until the end of your next turn.</p><p></p><p>For Shield to work as we all believe that it does, the AC and Reflex of the PC increases BEFORE the hit. The roll to hit is rechecked and if it misses, it misses.</p><p></p><p>Otherwise, Shield is (mostly) useless. The trigger itself (getting hit) is totally negated because the effect of the power works BEFORE the trigger occurs. Not AFTER, BEFORE.</p><p></p><p>Let's compare to Bear's Endurance:</p><p></p><p>Trigger: You drop to 0 hit points or fewer</p><p>Effect: You regain hit points as if you had spent a healing surge.</p><p></p><p>This can retroactively do a lot of stuff, just like with Shield.</p><p></p><p>The healing doesn't negate dropping to zero automatically. It does it by adding hit points and then figuring out again if the PC drops to zero. Just like with Shield where the AC and Reflex of the effect is added before recalculating the result of the trigger.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You cannot pick and choose how to apply the rule. It cannot work before the trigger of a hit with Shield and after the trigger of dropping to 0 with Bear's Endurance. It's not an Immediate Reaction, it's an Immediate Interrupt.</p><p></p><p>Sorry people, but Draco is correct.</p><p></p><p>The PC is not hit in the first case and the PC is not damaged in the second case until after the immediate interrupt is resolved.</p><p></p><p>If the AC with the Shield addition is not high enough, the PC is still hit.</p><p></p><p>If the hit points with the Bear's Endurance addition is not high enough, the PC is still at or below zero.</p><p></p><p>By using the alternative interpretation, you are changing this from an immediate interrupt to an immediate reaction.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And note: If a monster had a "+1 to hit if the PC is bloodied", and the PC is bloodied, and the monster hits on the number, and the PC uses Bear's Endurance, and the PC is no longer bloodied because of it, the PC is no longer even hit by the monster.</p><p></p><p>Yes, this is not intuitive, but again, it is no different than Shield.</p><p></p><p>The player decides to use Bear's Endurance.</p><p>The PC gains hit points and is no longer bloodied.</p><p>Because the PC is no longer bloodied, the attack no longer even hits.</p><p></p><p>Why does this work?</p><p></p><p>Because what if we had a power called Angel's Teleport as an Immediate Interrupt.</p><p></p><p>Trigger: You drop to 0 hit points or fewer</p><p>Effect: You teleport up to 5 squares.</p><p></p><p>If this is an Immediate Reaction, then the PC would teleport after dropping below zero. If this is an Immediate Interrupt, then the PC would teleport before dropping below zero and since he is not in range of the (presumably) melee attack, then the PC doesn't even get hit.</p><p></p><p>Same for the monster has +1 to hit when the PC is bloodied example.</p><p></p><p>The interrupt changes the state of the entire action.</p><p></p><p>Yes, this is non-intuitive, but if it is not ruled this way, then the power becomes an immediate reaction instead of an immediate interrupt.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5723737, member: 2011"] Let's compare this to Shield. Trigger: You are hit by an attack. Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus to AC and Reflex until the end of your next turn. For Shield to work as we all believe that it does, the AC and Reflex of the PC increases BEFORE the hit. The roll to hit is rechecked and if it misses, it misses. Otherwise, Shield is (mostly) useless. The trigger itself (getting hit) is totally negated because the effect of the power works BEFORE the trigger occurs. Not AFTER, BEFORE. Let's compare to Bear's Endurance: Trigger: You drop to 0 hit points or fewer Effect: You regain hit points as if you had spent a healing surge. This can retroactively do a lot of stuff, just like with Shield. The healing doesn't negate dropping to zero automatically. It does it by adding hit points and then figuring out again if the PC drops to zero. Just like with Shield where the AC and Reflex of the effect is added before recalculating the result of the trigger. You cannot pick and choose how to apply the rule. It cannot work before the trigger of a hit with Shield and after the trigger of dropping to 0 with Bear's Endurance. It's not an Immediate Reaction, it's an Immediate Interrupt. Sorry people, but Draco is correct. The PC is not hit in the first case and the PC is not damaged in the second case until after the immediate interrupt is resolved. If the AC with the Shield addition is not high enough, the PC is still hit. If the hit points with the Bear's Endurance addition is not high enough, the PC is still at or below zero. By using the alternative interpretation, you are changing this from an immediate interrupt to an immediate reaction. And note: If a monster had a "+1 to hit if the PC is bloodied", and the PC is bloodied, and the monster hits on the number, and the PC uses Bear's Endurance, and the PC is no longer bloodied because of it, the PC is no longer even hit by the monster. Yes, this is not intuitive, but again, it is no different than Shield. The player decides to use Bear's Endurance. The PC gains hit points and is no longer bloodied. Because the PC is no longer bloodied, the attack no longer even hits. Why does this work? Because what if we had a power called Angel's Teleport as an Immediate Interrupt. Trigger: You drop to 0 hit points or fewer Effect: You teleport up to 5 squares. If this is an Immediate Reaction, then the PC would teleport after dropping below zero. If this is an Immediate Interrupt, then the PC would teleport before dropping below zero and since he is not in range of the (presumably) melee attack, then the PC doesn't even get hit. Same for the monster has +1 to hit when the PC is bloodied example. The interrupt changes the state of the entire action. Yes, this is non-intuitive, but if it is not ruled this way, then the power becomes an immediate reaction instead of an immediate interrupt. [/QUOTE]
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Warden L6 Utility "Bears Endurance"
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