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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 5993436" data-attributes="member: 55966"><p>Is it really such a problem to ban the Wizard? I mean, you are asking quite a lot if you are expecting everyone to come around to not having Vancian magic in the course of the playtest. If Vancian magic is a deal breaker for you, but I'm sorry but you are probably already out.</p><p></p><p>I mean, Vancian magic has its problems, some solveable and some not. But there are things Vancian magic does that you can't get with the other D&D magic systems. For example, I enjoy finding and collecting a wide variety of spells for example, which you can't really do with spontaneous casters, mana point casters, at-will casters who all have set spells chosen by character advancement instead. </p><p></p><p>Even things that are problems that result (ie. the 15 minute adventuring day) still have their good points. The daily spell resource management allows for a sense of magic that is extremely powerful, whereas at-will wizards will generally not be able to do things that are wondrous because they have to stay in line with what the mundane classes can do round to round.</p><p></p><p>You think the flaws of the Vancian magic system are too great to overcome its virtues, fair enough. But those virtues are going to essential for a great number of D&D players, including myself. I don't mind some alterations to reduce the flaws, but asking me to do without the virtues is too much.</p><p></p><p>As a side note, casualoblivion, remember how much it annoyed the crap out of us when certain people (who are mostly on my ignore list) thread crapped on every innovation and new mechanic related to 4e, even if it was fun and interesting? The people who insisted that we couldn't be having fun with 4e because it wasn't really playable or D&D? Over the last few days you've started to sound like that guy. I mean this is a thread talking about the sorcerer and the warlock, not about how much Vancian casting sucks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 5993436, member: 55966"] Is it really such a problem to ban the Wizard? I mean, you are asking quite a lot if you are expecting everyone to come around to not having Vancian magic in the course of the playtest. If Vancian magic is a deal breaker for you, but I'm sorry but you are probably already out. I mean, Vancian magic has its problems, some solveable and some not. But there are things Vancian magic does that you can't get with the other D&D magic systems. For example, I enjoy finding and collecting a wide variety of spells for example, which you can't really do with spontaneous casters, mana point casters, at-will casters who all have set spells chosen by character advancement instead. Even things that are problems that result (ie. the 15 minute adventuring day) still have their good points. The daily spell resource management allows for a sense of magic that is extremely powerful, whereas at-will wizards will generally not be able to do things that are wondrous because they have to stay in line with what the mundane classes can do round to round. You think the flaws of the Vancian magic system are too great to overcome its virtues, fair enough. But those virtues are going to essential for a great number of D&D players, including myself. I don't mind some alterations to reduce the flaws, but asking me to do without the virtues is too much. As a side note, casualoblivion, remember how much it annoyed the crap out of us when certain people (who are mostly on my ignore list) thread crapped on every innovation and new mechanic related to 4e, even if it was fun and interesting? The people who insisted that we couldn't be having fun with 4e because it wasn't really playable or D&D? Over the last few days you've started to sound like that guy. I mean this is a thread talking about the sorcerer and the warlock, not about how much Vancian casting sucks. [/QUOTE]
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