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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 9230963" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>Again, that script book is a good resource for the intent of the author. While we can see things the author did not intend in a work, it is often best when analyzing their work to consider their stated intent and use that as a lens. When you read the unintended into the work of an author, it <em>can</em> disrespect them. Some authors are fine with it (until someone turns it into pro fascist propoganda), but some are very much against people reinterpreting their work. </p><p></p><p>[B5 spoilers ahead]</p><p></p><p>While a bit dumbed down for an American Sci-fi audience, both the Vorlons and the Shadows were depicted as being mysterious and inscrutable throughout the series. You didn't know why they did what they did until season four ... and even then, it was mostly abstract by being boiled down to one overarching question of 3 or 4 words for each ... and must be considered in light of the way the story resolved. These beings were so inscrutable that they, themselves, forgot who they were and what they wanted. The majority of seasons 2, 3 and 4 are a journey to understand these beings that defy understanding. Remember all those lessons Sheridan took with Kosh? What was the explicit reason for them? Understanding.</p><p></p><p>Look how they communicated. </p><p></p><p>Vorlons: "The avalanche has already started ... it is too late for the pebbles to vote." "Ah, you seek meaning. Then listen to the music, not the song." Remember when Kosh appeared to Sheridan as his father in a dream? There was a bovine form etched into scrut - In scrut ... a bull!</p><p></p><p>Shadows: Let me put this thing in your body so that I can control you. Almost everything else we ever hear from a Shadow ... we don't. Most of their dialogue is only heard by their Thralls like Mr. Morden. Can we get a reservation in Innsmouth? </p><p></p><p>Both the Shadows and Vorlons clearly have a variety of servants that were granted something in exchange for something - and it was not always by choice. The Shadows forced Molari into service, as well as the pilots of their ships. The Vorlons took the Inquisitor and demanded obedience from the "lesser races" or face destruction. It is easy to just use a broad brush and say, "Shadows: Evil - and chaotic - Demons!" and "Vorlons: Tyrannical - and lawful - DEVILS!" But JMS, as someone very interested in religious themes, was careful about how he crafted religion into the B5 stories - and he intentionally avoided going down the path of making Vorlons and Shadows fiendish. Despite episodes on religion and the use of Angelic imagery as a guise for Vorlons, he didn't use any of the tropes of infernal, fiendish, diabolic, demonic or porcine as features of Vorlons or Shadows. They were intentionally alien and mysterious. </p><p></p><p>You can argue any arrangement where someone gives up something for power looks fiendish because we describe such deals with evil as "deals with the devil". Absent the trappings of religious dogma, it is only superficial, however.</p><p></p><p>Here, the author's inspiration and his goal for emulation was explicitly Lovecraftian mythos. Straight from his own words, that is what was intended, and he was intentional about not using religious imagery or tropes (which I believe was intentional to make the sudden intrusion of the Angelic image a shocking reveal that was not fore-shadowed. Thus, when it hit, it hit hard - showing us that the Vorlons worked in mysterious ways that we were just not comprehending ... but made sense.)</p><p></p><p>And, yes, I know what porcine means. Did you see Porky in the imagery of the Shadows or Vorlons?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 9230963, member: 2629"] Again, that script book is a good resource for the intent of the author. While we can see things the author did not intend in a work, it is often best when analyzing their work to consider their stated intent and use that as a lens. When you read the unintended into the work of an author, it [I]can[/I] disrespect them. Some authors are fine with it (until someone turns it into pro fascist propoganda), but some are very much against people reinterpreting their work. [B5 spoilers ahead] While a bit dumbed down for an American Sci-fi audience, both the Vorlons and the Shadows were depicted as being mysterious and inscrutable throughout the series. You didn't know why they did what they did until season four ... and even then, it was mostly abstract by being boiled down to one overarching question of 3 or 4 words for each ... and must be considered in light of the way the story resolved. These beings were so inscrutable that they, themselves, forgot who they were and what they wanted. The majority of seasons 2, 3 and 4 are a journey to understand these beings that defy understanding. Remember all those lessons Sheridan took with Kosh? What was the explicit reason for them? Understanding. Look how they communicated. Vorlons: "The avalanche has already started ... it is too late for the pebbles to vote." "Ah, you seek meaning. Then listen to the music, not the song." Remember when Kosh appeared to Sheridan as his father in a dream? There was a bovine form etched into scrut - In scrut ... a bull! Shadows: Let me put this thing in your body so that I can control you. Almost everything else we ever hear from a Shadow ... we don't. Most of their dialogue is only heard by their Thralls like Mr. Morden. Can we get a reservation in Innsmouth? Both the Shadows and Vorlons clearly have a variety of servants that were granted something in exchange for something - and it was not always by choice. The Shadows forced Molari into service, as well as the pilots of their ships. The Vorlons took the Inquisitor and demanded obedience from the "lesser races" or face destruction. It is easy to just use a broad brush and say, "Shadows: Evil - and chaotic - Demons!" and "Vorlons: Tyrannical - and lawful - DEVILS!" But JMS, as someone very interested in religious themes, was careful about how he crafted religion into the B5 stories - and he intentionally avoided going down the path of making Vorlons and Shadows fiendish. Despite episodes on religion and the use of Angelic imagery as a guise for Vorlons, he didn't use any of the tropes of infernal, fiendish, diabolic, demonic or porcine as features of Vorlons or Shadows. They were intentionally alien and mysterious. You can argue any arrangement where someone gives up something for power looks fiendish because we describe such deals with evil as "deals with the devil". Absent the trappings of religious dogma, it is only superficial, however. Here, the author's inspiration and his goal for emulation was explicitly Lovecraftian mythos. Straight from his own words, that is what was intended, and he was intentional about not using religious imagery or tropes (which I believe was intentional to make the sudden intrusion of the Angelic image a shocking reveal that was not fore-shadowed. Thus, when it hit, it hit hard - showing us that the Vorlons worked in mysterious ways that we were just not comprehending ... but made sense.) And, yes, I know what porcine means. Did you see Porky in the imagery of the Shadows or Vorlons? [/QUOTE]
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