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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7298217" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Agreed. Luckily you have a d6 per beam because they are separate attacks. Fighters and EB get 3 attacks at 11th compared to other weapon wielders 2 (or rogue's 1, but they have a different mechanic). EB is the only one that goes up to four native attacks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Rubbish. Well, you never <em>need</em> to cast a particular spell. But by your own definition - if it's an easy combat, it's likely to be over quickly with minimal damage to you and therefore you Hex will last until the next combat. So it's up for that one as well. And keeps going until you either screw up an easy save or you reach a combat where you "need" it. </p><p></p><p>At that point you've added d6 to every hit you've had in multiple combats, killing foes quicker to deny their actions and therefore saving resources (even if it's just some HPs) for the whole party.</p><p></p><p>AND, there is a good chance that by that point you've had a short rest, so in the hard combat where you want the extra damage, you are starting with it AND still have all of your slots.</p><p></p><p>In other words, it's a <em>great</em> spell to cast (with a 3rd+ slot) during an easy combat because you also need to consider future use.</p><p></p><p>But please don't take this as "you must cast Hex". Pishtosh. I've been talking up hex vs. "it's not worth ever casting", but I can see it coming across as "it is always worth casting".</p><p></p><p>You have plenty of spells and others will often be a better fit for a situation. Just like the rest of your spells, Hex is a good fit for a particular time - when you're looking to do single target (at a time) damage. Sometimes, that's what you need. Sometimes, it's not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>(Taking this with standard casters, since neither are on the Warlock base list.)</p><p> </p><p>If you want to put forth that in an entire day worth of adventuring you only get attacked exactly once, and the 2 points of AC between shield and mage armor is the difference between a hit and a miss, then it's useless. But the second you get attacked more than once in an adventuring day then Mage Armor is worth more. Get attacked just once per combat would probably require more than a single Shield spell to generate the same number of misses the mage armor does. (And having BOTH is worth even more, though that's not part of this.)</p><p></p><p>Sorry, your example is only true in a corner case and demonstrably wrong in general usage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Absolutely.</em> However, of the full casters, Warlocks are the <strong><em>worst</em></strong> at it simply because of lack of options. Silent Image is a great spell - I'd take it. But once an illusion has been discovered in combat it may not be very effective later. Or against things that notice there is no sound. Or have alternate senses. But it's an invocation - you have very few of them.</p><p></p><p>It comes down to the opportunity cost - one more invocation after you've already picked your favorites can and will be useful in some circumstances. But alternately, you can spend the invocation slot on something that will be a useful fallback in all circumstances, and scales with level as more beams do more damage.</p><p></p><p>You're right, that's a much harder choice when you only have two invocations, since your #2 pick is still probably very good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, completely agree. <em>Hopefully you read in my previous post where I talked about how Warlocks can do many amazing things.</em> And the <strong>second part on the comment that with limited slots per rest, it's also good to able to contribute at-will to fill the rest of the time you aren't using your spells or invocations at a rate equal to or better than the other sustainable damage dealers.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, agree. But since you can do those AND take advantage of Eldritch Blast whenever you need an action to just do some damage, I don't understand why you'd ignore them. Even if you aren't using Hex.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, now this has some things I agree with and some thigns I don't. I have <strong>not</strong> been saying that Warlocks are only good as EB turrets. Plenty of ways to play them, and any one that <strong>just</strong> wants to make ranged attacks wold probably be better with an archer. Warlocks have lots of options.</p><p></p><p>What I have been saying that EB is a useful tool to fill the gap around everything else they can do. And that a tool that you use regularly (say a couple times a combat every combat of the day) is worth investing some resources in to make better. Oh, and I've hopefully been dispelling myths about Hex in higher level slots.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7298217, member: 20564"] Agreed. Luckily you have a d6 per beam because they are separate attacks. Fighters and EB get 3 attacks at 11th compared to other weapon wielders 2 (or rogue's 1, but they have a different mechanic). EB is the only one that goes up to four native attacks. Rubbish. Well, you never [I]need[/I] to cast a particular spell. But by your own definition - if it's an easy combat, it's likely to be over quickly with minimal damage to you and therefore you Hex will last until the next combat. So it's up for that one as well. And keeps going until you either screw up an easy save or you reach a combat where you "need" it. At that point you've added d6 to every hit you've had in multiple combats, killing foes quicker to deny their actions and therefore saving resources (even if it's just some HPs) for the whole party. AND, there is a good chance that by that point you've had a short rest, so in the hard combat where you want the extra damage, you are starting with it AND still have all of your slots. In other words, it's a [I]great[/I] spell to cast (with a 3rd+ slot) during an easy combat because you also need to consider future use. But please don't take this as "you must cast Hex". Pishtosh. I've been talking up hex vs. "it's not worth ever casting", but I can see it coming across as "it is always worth casting". You have plenty of spells and others will often be a better fit for a situation. Just like the rest of your spells, Hex is a good fit for a particular time - when you're looking to do single target (at a time) damage. Sometimes, that's what you need. Sometimes, it's not. (Taking this with standard casters, since neither are on the Warlock base list.) If you want to put forth that in an entire day worth of adventuring you only get attacked exactly once, and the 2 points of AC between shield and mage armor is the difference between a hit and a miss, then it's useless. But the second you get attacked more than once in an adventuring day then Mage Armor is worth more. Get attacked just once per combat would probably require more than a single Shield spell to generate the same number of misses the mage armor does. (And having BOTH is worth even more, though that's not part of this.) Sorry, your example is only true in a corner case and demonstrably wrong in general usage. [I]Absolutely.[/I] However, of the full casters, Warlocks are the [B][I]worst[/I][/B] at it simply because of lack of options. Silent Image is a great spell - I'd take it. But once an illusion has been discovered in combat it may not be very effective later. Or against things that notice there is no sound. Or have alternate senses. But it's an invocation - you have very few of them. It comes down to the opportunity cost - one more invocation after you've already picked your favorites can and will be useful in some circumstances. But alternately, you can spend the invocation slot on something that will be a useful fallback in all circumstances, and scales with level as more beams do more damage. You're right, that's a much harder choice when you only have two invocations, since your #2 pick is still probably very good. Again, completely agree. [I]Hopefully you read in my previous post where I talked about how Warlocks can do many amazing things.[/I] And the [B]second part on the comment that with limited slots per rest, it's also good to able to contribute at-will to fill the rest of the time you aren't using your spells or invocations at a rate equal to or better than the other sustainable damage dealers. [/B] Again, agree. But since you can do those AND take advantage of Eldritch Blast whenever you need an action to just do some damage, I don't understand why you'd ignore them. Even if you aren't using Hex. See, now this has some things I agree with and some thigns I don't. I have [B]not[/B] been saying that Warlocks are only good as EB turrets. Plenty of ways to play them, and any one that [B]just[/B] wants to make ranged attacks wold probably be better with an archer. Warlocks have lots of options. What I have been saying that EB is a useful tool to fill the gap around everything else they can do. And that a tool that you use regularly (say a couple times a combat every combat of the day) is worth investing some resources in to make better. Oh, and I've hopefully been dispelling myths about Hex in higher level slots. [/QUOTE]
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