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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6045598" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Does it fail to feel like a battlefield commander, though? If so, how?</p><p></p><p>I don't see uniqueness in and of itself as something that is commendable. Like balance, it's something that must be used in service of a goal. I don't think that a battlefield commander must be especially unique or different to capture the archetype. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The 4e warlord had very close to the same mechanics with their at-wills. I specifically drew inspiration from Inspiring Word, Wolf Pack Tactics, and Commander's Strike, which I feel are some of the 4e warlord's most distinguishing features (due to them being usable every round), and also matched the "at-will" usability of 5e's maneuvers. If you've got a 4e Warlord ability that isn't replicated there that you feel gets this idea across better, which one is it? I'm sure it could be implemented, too. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>I also don't know what is so bad about mechanics that are largely similar to the existing 5e mechanics. Compare Inspiring Words to Parry, for instance: in exchange for range, the warlord has a restriction of a slightly more limited circumstance. How is that specifically problematic? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your main problem here seems to be the lack of martial daily or encounter powers, which isn't something within the scope of what I'm doing. It's fairly easy to say, in an opt-in sort of way, "here's a bunch of metagame mechanics you can add for added butt-kicking if you want, like not regaining ED until a short or extended rest, or doing metagamey things like recharing powers or forcing enemy actions." That caveat in mind...</p><p></p><p>[sblock=here they are]</p><p>LttS is a daily, and dictates enemy action, and so is inherently more of a dramatic, more metagame ability. Including martial dailies is out of the realm of what I'm attempting here. Powered-down to at-will levels of power and stripped of the pseudomagical dictation of enemy action, it would lose the ability to change the flow of combat, but would otherwise essentially be Commanding Shout, only allowing a charge instead of a melee attack. Hypothetically, you could include a ramp up in power in exchange for not being able to regain your spend Expertise util your next extended rest, which could bring it in line with LttS. However, though I still think the metagamey function of forcing an enemy's movement would leave it too divorced from the reality of the gameworld to keep it viable, that's pretty much just, like, my opinion, man, so why not.</p><p></p><p>NGiW is an encounter, and its "do-over" nature also rests on a codified Encounter and Daily system. However, the free-attack-on-a-miss nature of the thing could be fairly easily duplicated within the maneuvers system a la:</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><u>Maneuver: Lunge At The Opening</u></strong></span></p><p>When an enemy dodges your ally's attack, you make use of the move to strike yourself.</p><p><strong>Effect</strong>: When an ally misses an attack against an enemy you are within reach of, you can make a melee attack against that creature as a reaction. Roll all the expertise dice you spent, add up their results, and increase your damage by the total. </p><p></p><p>Like with LttS, you could include an option to not regain your spent expertise dice until the end of the encounter, and ramp it up in power, including preserving whatever attack the ally missed with, though this again gets pretty metagamey. Again, not a problem if you opt-into it, really.</p><p></p><p>Reorient the Axis is just Tactical Instructions +, so you could ramp that up like the others. Provoke Overextension is similarly just Commanding Shout +, so you can ramp it up similarly.</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>The big takeaway point being, given that Expertise is an at-will option, I limited myself to things that were at-will options in 4e. It's easy enough to ramp up the power and add in metagame mechanics if you'd like, but it's my impression that this would conflict with some of the core philosophy of basic 5e, so I didn't. You could, though. It's even kind of trivial to do it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Been there, done that. But also, you don't get to make that call, so...look at that thought experiment I did!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6045598, member: 2067"] Does it fail to feel like a battlefield commander, though? If so, how? I don't see uniqueness in and of itself as something that is commendable. Like balance, it's something that must be used in service of a goal. I don't think that a battlefield commander must be especially unique or different to capture the archetype. The 4e warlord had very close to the same mechanics with their at-wills. I specifically drew inspiration from Inspiring Word, Wolf Pack Tactics, and Commander's Strike, which I feel are some of the 4e warlord's most distinguishing features (due to them being usable every round), and also matched the "at-will" usability of 5e's maneuvers. If you've got a 4e Warlord ability that isn't replicated there that you feel gets this idea across better, which one is it? I'm sure it could be implemented, too. :) I also don't know what is so bad about mechanics that are largely similar to the existing 5e mechanics. Compare Inspiring Words to Parry, for instance: in exchange for range, the warlord has a restriction of a slightly more limited circumstance. How is that specifically problematic? Your main problem here seems to be the lack of martial daily or encounter powers, which isn't something within the scope of what I'm doing. It's fairly easy to say, in an opt-in sort of way, "here's a bunch of metagame mechanics you can add for added butt-kicking if you want, like not regaining ED until a short or extended rest, or doing metagamey things like recharing powers or forcing enemy actions." That caveat in mind... [sblock=here they are] LttS is a daily, and dictates enemy action, and so is inherently more of a dramatic, more metagame ability. Including martial dailies is out of the realm of what I'm attempting here. Powered-down to at-will levels of power and stripped of the pseudomagical dictation of enemy action, it would lose the ability to change the flow of combat, but would otherwise essentially be Commanding Shout, only allowing a charge instead of a melee attack. Hypothetically, you could include a ramp up in power in exchange for not being able to regain your spend Expertise util your next extended rest, which could bring it in line with LttS. However, though I still think the metagamey function of forcing an enemy's movement would leave it too divorced from the reality of the gameworld to keep it viable, that's pretty much just, like, my opinion, man, so why not. NGiW is an encounter, and its "do-over" nature also rests on a codified Encounter and Daily system. However, the free-attack-on-a-miss nature of the thing could be fairly easily duplicated within the maneuvers system a la: [SIZE="3"][B][U]Maneuver: Lunge At The Opening[/U][/B][/SIZE] When an enemy dodges your ally's attack, you make use of the move to strike yourself. [B]Effect[/B]: When an ally misses an attack against an enemy you are within reach of, you can make a melee attack against that creature as a reaction. Roll all the expertise dice you spent, add up their results, and increase your damage by the total. Like with LttS, you could include an option to not regain your spent expertise dice until the end of the encounter, and ramp it up in power, including preserving whatever attack the ally missed with, though this again gets pretty metagamey. Again, not a problem if you opt-into it, really. Reorient the Axis is just Tactical Instructions +, so you could ramp that up like the others. Provoke Overextension is similarly just Commanding Shout +, so you can ramp it up similarly. [/sblock] The big takeaway point being, given that Expertise is an at-will option, I limited myself to things that were at-will options in 4e. It's easy enough to ramp up the power and add in metagame mechanics if you'd like, but it's my impression that this would conflict with some of the core philosophy of basic 5e, so I didn't. You could, though. It's even kind of trivial to do it. Been there, done that. But also, you don't get to make that call, so...look at that thought experiment I did! [/QUOTE]
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