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General Tabletop Discussion
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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6046231" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>For me, this is the real issue.</p><p></p><p>In the real world, it is possible to feint enemies, to lead them into traps, and so on. Time does not unfold in a freeze-frame fashion, and skilled tactics and/or inspiration can give one side a greater ratio of opportunities/openings relative to their enemies. Inspiration can also help people push on when others would falter. And intimidation, or an obviously superior oppnent, can cow enemies.</p><p></p><p>The question is, how does one model all this in D&D? There are not that many places it can happen.</p><p></p><p>Consider increasing the ration of opportunities/openings - this can be done either via a to-hit boost, or via improved action economy. D&D has a long history of using imrpoved action economy here (eg AD&D fighters get multiple attacks, not just bigger attack bonuses, even though attack bonus is what models the ability to exploit openings).</p><p></p><p>Consider inspiring allies to gon. If this can't be done via healing (which is its natural home, given the role of hit points in D&D), it is hard to see how it can be incorporated at all.</p><p></p><p>What about intimidating enemies? If this can't be done via imposing conditions or hit point loss, how is it to be handled? But if these can only be imposed via magic, then I guess this is out too.</p><p></p><p>And then what about feining, wrongfooting, leading enemies into traps etc? This is never going to happen organically, via the player "feinting" the GM. D&D action resolution just doesn't work in the right way for this to happen (contrast Burning Wheel scripting, in which a player <em>can</em> feint the GM). The only way to achieve this is via forced movement or similar. But if this can only be imposed via magic, then I guess we can't have wrong-footing by our warlords.</p><p></p><p>The weird thing about that last point is that we do permit AC-purging feinting (eg in 3E) without complaints about it being pseudo-magical. I'm pretty sure that if D&D handled combat position via some sort of "zone" or advantage sysmtem, rather than via position on a grid, then no one would object to the warlord improving his/her zone/advantage via non-magical means.</p><p></p><p><strong>TL;DR</strong>: the nature of D&D's action resolution mechanics makes it very hard to achieve the warlord if none of the mechanics are actually allowed to keep people in the fight (via reducing their hp loss) or to wrongfoot/feint enemies (via changing their position) or to mess with the action economy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6046231, member: 42582"] For me, this is the real issue. In the real world, it is possible to feint enemies, to lead them into traps, and so on. Time does not unfold in a freeze-frame fashion, and skilled tactics and/or inspiration can give one side a greater ratio of opportunities/openings relative to their enemies. Inspiration can also help people push on when others would falter. And intimidation, or an obviously superior oppnent, can cow enemies. The question is, how does one model all this in D&D? There are not that many places it can happen. Consider increasing the ration of opportunities/openings - this can be done either via a to-hit boost, or via improved action economy. D&D has a long history of using imrpoved action economy here (eg AD&D fighters get multiple attacks, not just bigger attack bonuses, even though attack bonus is what models the ability to exploit openings). Consider inspiring allies to gon. If this can't be done via healing (which is its natural home, given the role of hit points in D&D), it is hard to see how it can be incorporated at all. What about intimidating enemies? If this can't be done via imposing conditions or hit point loss, how is it to be handled? But if these can only be imposed via magic, then I guess this is out too. And then what about feining, wrongfooting, leading enemies into traps etc? This is never going to happen organically, via the player "feinting" the GM. D&D action resolution just doesn't work in the right way for this to happen (contrast Burning Wheel scripting, in which a player [I]can[/I] feint the GM). The only way to achieve this is via forced movement or similar. But if this can only be imposed via magic, then I guess we can't have wrong-footing by our warlords. The weird thing about that last point is that we do permit AC-purging feinting (eg in 3E) without complaints about it being pseudo-magical. I'm pretty sure that if D&D handled combat position via some sort of "zone" or advantage sysmtem, rather than via position on a grid, then no one would object to the warlord improving his/her zone/advantage via non-magical means. [B]TL;DR[/B]: the nature of D&D's action resolution mechanics makes it very hard to achieve the warlord if none of the mechanics are actually allowed to keep people in the fight (via reducing their hp loss) or to wrongfoot/feint enemies (via changing their position) or to mess with the action economy. [/QUOTE]
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