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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6046884" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>I'm not sure what use a narrow, rigid interpretation of "forced movement" serves. Abstraction of the concept allows us to model all manner of combat dynamics while contraction disallows in the same way. </p><p></p><p>"Forced Movement" is simple. It is any compulsion, physical or otherwise, on your conscious or subconscious mind that dictates that you give up ground that you would otherwise keep.</p><p></p><p>In Hockey, a Center might be forcibly pushed from the crease by a Defenseman.</p><p></p><p>In Basketball, a Guard might split a double team to get into the paint but a weak-side help defender might cut him off and reroute him. The Guard is not physically compelled but his "basketball IQ" (subconscious instinct) kicks in and the Guard "automatically" retreats the gained position so as to avoid a potential turnover.</p><p></p><p>In American Football, a Defense is in 2-Deep Man Coverage. The Cornerbacks lock up on the Wide Receivers while both Safeties have deep halves, protecting against the deep ball. The Tight End runs up the Seam (attempting to occupy the attention of the Safety). The Wide Receiver runs an Out Route (the same way he has run it 5 times before in the game), setting up a Cornerback for a double-move. The Quarterback looks off the Safety over the top of the Wide Receiver by staring down the Tight End to draw the Safety inside (forced movement). The Wide Receiver's head flashes back to the Quarterback (possibly the Warlord here) who performs a perfect pump-fake to that side of the field. The Cornerback bites on the pump-fake and jumps the Out Route (forced movement). The Wide Receiver turns up-field and with the Safety pulled inside by the Tight End on the Seam Route (and the QB's eyes attracting him there), the Wide Receiver is now wide open. The Quarterback (Warlord) puts it on him. Both the Safety and Cornerback were compelled by "forced movement."</p><p></p><p>If these things are going to exist in combat in D&D, the definition has to be abstract enough to allow for it and the offenders need to have activatable abilities to dictate the forced movement without the defender being able to "choose" if they wish to participate...because in martial endeavors, there is rarely a "choice". It is most often either physical imposition or, if not that, it is a reflexive, subconscious response dictated by the operative condition of mass exposure to a stimulus + muscle memory + instantaneous calculations of cost-benefit-analysis that don't even register to the conscious mind.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6046884, member: 6696971"] I'm not sure what use a narrow, rigid interpretation of "forced movement" serves. Abstraction of the concept allows us to model all manner of combat dynamics while contraction disallows in the same way. "Forced Movement" is simple. It is any compulsion, physical or otherwise, on your conscious or subconscious mind that dictates that you give up ground that you would otherwise keep. In Hockey, a Center might be forcibly pushed from the crease by a Defenseman. In Basketball, a Guard might split a double team to get into the paint but a weak-side help defender might cut him off and reroute him. The Guard is not physically compelled but his "basketball IQ" (subconscious instinct) kicks in and the Guard "automatically" retreats the gained position so as to avoid a potential turnover. In American Football, a Defense is in 2-Deep Man Coverage. The Cornerbacks lock up on the Wide Receivers while both Safeties have deep halves, protecting against the deep ball. The Tight End runs up the Seam (attempting to occupy the attention of the Safety). The Wide Receiver runs an Out Route (the same way he has run it 5 times before in the game), setting up a Cornerback for a double-move. The Quarterback looks off the Safety over the top of the Wide Receiver by staring down the Tight End to draw the Safety inside (forced movement). The Wide Receiver's head flashes back to the Quarterback (possibly the Warlord here) who performs a perfect pump-fake to that side of the field. The Cornerback bites on the pump-fake and jumps the Out Route (forced movement). The Wide Receiver turns up-field and with the Safety pulled inside by the Tight End on the Seam Route (and the QB's eyes attracting him there), the Wide Receiver is now wide open. The Quarterback (Warlord) puts it on him. Both the Safety and Cornerback were compelled by "forced movement." If these things are going to exist in combat in D&D, the definition has to be abstract enough to allow for it and the offenders need to have activatable abilities to dictate the forced movement without the defender being able to "choose" if they wish to participate...because in martial endeavors, there is rarely a "choice". It is most often either physical imposition or, if not that, it is a reflexive, subconscious response dictated by the operative condition of mass exposure to a stimulus + muscle memory + instantaneous calculations of cost-benefit-analysis that don't even register to the conscious mind. [/QUOTE]
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