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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6047015" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm not sure that they do, actually. I think it's an elegant feature of 4e that it finds a common rule to model both of them, plus a range of fear effects, plus physical pulling and shoving, plus clever weapon play ("Footwork Lure" etc).</p><p></p><p>Sure. People would also play wizards, even if all magic depended on GM fiat and adjudication. But that doesn't mean that spells, as discrete mechanical elements corresponding to discrete story elements, aren't the heart of D&D magic-users.</p><p></p><p>But in my view that shows the limitations that result from not granting healing. It is a damage preventing reaction. It rules out the rousing speech after the person has fallen, or the Aragorn dream sequence from Jackson's Two Towers, etc.</p><p></p><p>It is limiting the fictional scope in pursuit of a purely mechanical policy of not permitting martial restoration of hit points. Whereas my goal is "fiction first". And I think the mechanics I have identified - hit point restoration, and control over enemies' movement and disposition more broadly - are central to realising the relevant fiction within the parameters of D&D action resolution.</p><p></p><p>Whether or not the Expertise Dice system could accommodate metagame abilities isn't my main concern. I think there are other issues around this system - namely, it strongly favours abilities that can be measured in numerical terms (especially damage prevention and bonuses to damage rolls or to d20 rolls) - but that is likely to be as big a constraint on the design of decent fighter and rogue abilities as decent warlord abilities.</p><p></p><p>Forcing an action isn't magic. The real world is free of magic (at least to the best of my understanding) but is full of forced action.</p><p></p><p>The problem with always granting a choice is that, in D&D, you can't simulate the circumstances that affect and manipulate choices in the real world. The GM has no momentum, for example, that precludes changing direction; has no relevant emotions to be manipulated; etc.</p><p></p><p>The fundamental problem is that this leaves it in the hands of the GM whether or not the NPC moves. Whereas a good tactician manipulates the enemy in such a way that it is <em>not</em> in their hands, in any sense beyond the basics of voluntary muscular movement, that they move to A rather than B.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with both these posts.</p><p></p><p>As I said upthread, an RPG can have action resolution mechanics that compel sub-optimal choices - blind scripting, as in Burning Wheel, is an example, where a skilled player can "feint" the GM by clever scripting that the GM does not anticipate in scripting for the NPCs. But D&D is not such a game - everything is open. When everything is open, the GM can't be tricked into a bad choice.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6047015, member: 42582"] I'm not sure that they do, actually. I think it's an elegant feature of 4e that it finds a common rule to model both of them, plus a range of fear effects, plus physical pulling and shoving, plus clever weapon play ("Footwork Lure" etc). Sure. People would also play wizards, even if all magic depended on GM fiat and adjudication. But that doesn't mean that spells, as discrete mechanical elements corresponding to discrete story elements, aren't the heart of D&D magic-users. But in my view that shows the limitations that result from not granting healing. It is a damage preventing reaction. It rules out the rousing speech after the person has fallen, or the Aragorn dream sequence from Jackson's Two Towers, etc. It is limiting the fictional scope in pursuit of a purely mechanical policy of not permitting martial restoration of hit points. Whereas my goal is "fiction first". And I think the mechanics I have identified - hit point restoration, and control over enemies' movement and disposition more broadly - are central to realising the relevant fiction within the parameters of D&D action resolution. Whether or not the Expertise Dice system could accommodate metagame abilities isn't my main concern. I think there are other issues around this system - namely, it strongly favours abilities that can be measured in numerical terms (especially damage prevention and bonuses to damage rolls or to d20 rolls) - but that is likely to be as big a constraint on the design of decent fighter and rogue abilities as decent warlord abilities. Forcing an action isn't magic. The real world is free of magic (at least to the best of my understanding) but is full of forced action. The problem with always granting a choice is that, in D&D, you can't simulate the circumstances that affect and manipulate choices in the real world. The GM has no momentum, for example, that precludes changing direction; has no relevant emotions to be manipulated; etc. The fundamental problem is that this leaves it in the hands of the GM whether or not the NPC moves. Whereas a good tactician manipulates the enemy in such a way that it is [I]not[/I] in their hands, in any sense beyond the basics of voluntary muscular movement, that they move to A rather than B. I agree with both these posts. As I said upthread, an RPG can have action resolution mechanics that compel sub-optimal choices - blind scripting, as in Burning Wheel, is an example, where a skilled player can "feint" the GM by clever scripting that the GM does not anticipate in scripting for the NPCs. But D&D is not such a game - everything is open. When everything is open, the GM can't be tricked into a bad choice. [/QUOTE]
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