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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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<blockquote data-quote="Chris_Nightwing" data-source="post: 6047048" data-attributes="member: 882"><p>When a spellcaster charms an enemy into stepping onto a trapdoor, they want to do it, and up to the very moment they fall to their death they are happy to be there. When a rogue tricks, or a fighter pushes, or a warlord draws in an enemy onto that same trapdoor, they suddenly realise they don't want to be there at all, but unless they have movement left or some other way to respond, they're also falling to their death.</p><p></p><p>There's no problem with what is termed 'forced movement' being non-magical, but there has to be some logical and reasonable defence against it. For magic, that's a saving throw. For bluffing, that's a sense motive, or a wisdom saving throw. For pushing, that's now a strength saving throw, or having a good enough AC that you don't get hit. For a warlord to arrange enemies on mass, that ought to involve an instigating action, and a saving throw. I can imagine the warlord's presence on the battlefield being prominent, constantly giving orders, so there's nothing wrong with him using an ability to call out some prepared set of orders, false or otherwise, that lures the enemies into certain positions and makes them easier to attack. Forces them to move into pits? No, that's silly. Forces them to all move up to the fighter, who can then make a free attack, that's fine.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chris_Nightwing, post: 6047048, member: 882"] When a spellcaster charms an enemy into stepping onto a trapdoor, they want to do it, and up to the very moment they fall to their death they are happy to be there. When a rogue tricks, or a fighter pushes, or a warlord draws in an enemy onto that same trapdoor, they suddenly realise they don't want to be there at all, but unless they have movement left or some other way to respond, they're also falling to their death. There's no problem with what is termed 'forced movement' being non-magical, but there has to be some logical and reasonable defence against it. For magic, that's a saving throw. For bluffing, that's a sense motive, or a wisdom saving throw. For pushing, that's now a strength saving throw, or having a good enough AC that you don't get hit. For a warlord to arrange enemies on mass, that ought to involve an instigating action, and a saving throw. I can imagine the warlord's presence on the battlefield being prominent, constantly giving orders, so there's nothing wrong with him using an ability to call out some prepared set of orders, false or otherwise, that lures the enemies into certain positions and makes them easier to attack. Forces them to move into pits? No, that's silly. Forces them to all move up to the fighter, who can then make a free attack, that's fine. [/QUOTE]
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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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