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<blockquote data-quote="AaronOfBarbaria" data-source="post: 6827009" data-attributes="member: 6701872"><p>Which is exactly why when their opinion of where their gear is (gauntlets and ring still in their possession) and your opinion of where their gear is (gauntlets and ring sold for zero profit) differs, it should be their opinion that takes precedent - yet you went the other way, getting yourself into what you feel to be their job, and appear to have done so for no reason other than to show the player he should have been paying better attention (which even though you say you didn't intend as a punishment, is punishment).</p><p></p><p>It doesn't surprise me that your group seem to not value information finding spells like detect magic and identify, considering that you as a DM appear to choose practices that make the gathering of information difficulty and/or unreliable.</p><p></p><p>Of course, if your group is okay with the consequences of altering magic item recognition and identification (which, by the way, the short rest identification rule is meant as a representation of the exact "learn through using" process you mention, only handle in a way that says "your character will probably figure it out in an hour or less" rather than "your character has to rely on you as a player to guess the right thing to make it work") that does mitigate part of the fact that this entire situation that happened in your game and resulted in agitated players could have been avoided just by making sense of the rules as they exist, rather than bending the rules to your per-existing definition of what makes sense - or by choosing to work <em>with</em> your players, rather than take the "should have been paying attention" route.</p><p></p><p>As for the player that has stated they won't trust any NPCs anymore, I expect you'll go a few sessions without incident and then find yourself in another situation where someone (likely you) is frustrated by what is going on at the table - entirely because you had a choice between a helpful reminder, a roll for the character to realize he was doing something undesired, or letting the player feel like you meant to pull one over on him, and you said "Not my job to make sure the player knows what his character is actually doing."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AaronOfBarbaria, post: 6827009, member: 6701872"] Which is exactly why when their opinion of where their gear is (gauntlets and ring still in their possession) and your opinion of where their gear is (gauntlets and ring sold for zero profit) differs, it should be their opinion that takes precedent - yet you went the other way, getting yourself into what you feel to be their job, and appear to have done so for no reason other than to show the player he should have been paying better attention (which even though you say you didn't intend as a punishment, is punishment). It doesn't surprise me that your group seem to not value information finding spells like detect magic and identify, considering that you as a DM appear to choose practices that make the gathering of information difficulty and/or unreliable. Of course, if your group is okay with the consequences of altering magic item recognition and identification (which, by the way, the short rest identification rule is meant as a representation of the exact "learn through using" process you mention, only handle in a way that says "your character will probably figure it out in an hour or less" rather than "your character has to rely on you as a player to guess the right thing to make it work") that does mitigate part of the fact that this entire situation that happened in your game and resulted in agitated players could have been avoided just by making sense of the rules as they exist, rather than bending the rules to your per-existing definition of what makes sense - or by choosing to work [I]with[/I] your players, rather than take the "should have been paying attention" route. As for the player that has stated they won't trust any NPCs anymore, I expect you'll go a few sessions without incident and then find yourself in another situation where someone (likely you) is frustrated by what is going on at the table - entirely because you had a choice between a helpful reminder, a roll for the character to realize he was doing something undesired, or letting the player feel like you meant to pull one over on him, and you said "Not my job to make sure the player knows what his character is actually doing." [/QUOTE]
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