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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6844152" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Wait, what? Swashbuckler, to me at least, says a skillful swordsman. Dueling and TWF both back that up. So does Extra Attack. So, tangentially, do ASI's if feats are available. So do the BM's maneuvers if you go with that sub-class. The concept also says 'daring do,' which Action Surge, d10 HD, and Second Wind all at least help with, and, for once, even the Champion's 'Remarkable' Athlete doesn't seem entirely irrelevant. </p><p></p><p>hps represent avoiding physical damage by the skin of your teeth, too. The Swashbuckler is going to all but live in melee. It's superfluous. In 5e, it doesn't matter if you have heavy armor proficiency - if you go high-DEX and light weapons, you're in good shape. Where armor proficiency might make a difference is if you don't have the best light (if going DEX) or heavy (if going STR) armors on your list. </p><p></p><p>He's not, you pick the one (or two if Champion) style(s) that fit the concept. it's better than never being able to be quick. A perfect fit for the lightning-fast rapier-wielding duelist. And, it's the Fighter's single most potent, most significant class feature. And feats may not even be available. Swashbucklers - like most genre heroes - tend to be pretty all-round gifted, though, so a couple more +2's'd be welcome. </p><p></p><p>Not as emblematic as being great with a rapier, no. But really the only thing that's less than a good fit and not a matter of choosing something else that is.</p><p></p><p>d10'd be better if you're going to melee a lot, but it's OK. Really, no one's that hard up for hps in 5e that 1/level on average is huge either way.Even light armor's a little off the classic Three Musketeer's look, but by D&D standards, sure. </p><p>Not quite, perfect, no. Swashbucklers are really into dueling, where getting advantage isn't the sure thing it can be for a Rogue working with teammates.</p><p>Nice for specific bits of daring-do, yes, not so good for going to town on the Six Fingered Man.</p><p>The fighter is sadly lacking in skills compare to the Rogue, and the Swashbuckler does quite a bit of skillful stuff, so yeah,</p><p></p><p>Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killa my father, prepare to die.</p><p></p><p>We've got both. That a fighter could cover some, less skill-focused, more melee-focused swashbuckler concepts was never a reason not to do the Rogue archetype, that shaded towards the opposite emphasis. </p><p></p><p>At bottom, the Swashbuckler is a character who crosses swords with the bad guy and wins. In D&D, that's modeled with melee DPR, and it's a big part the classes that get it. </p><p>The fighter and rogue both fit the bill. If you're not all about dat damage, neither of those classes are such a good fit.</p><p></p><p>It is. It misses how 5e gives you multiple paths to similar concepts, and asserts that one path to one concept in the ballpark obviates all others. It is ludicrous, but you don't have to pretend a DEX-based fighter can't buckle some swash to make that point. Quite the contrary.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6844152, member: 996"] Wait, what? Swashbuckler, to me at least, says a skillful swordsman. Dueling and TWF both back that up. So does Extra Attack. So, tangentially, do ASI's if feats are available. So do the BM's maneuvers if you go with that sub-class. The concept also says 'daring do,' which Action Surge, d10 HD, and Second Wind all at least help with, and, for once, even the Champion's 'Remarkable' Athlete doesn't seem entirely irrelevant. hps represent avoiding physical damage by the skin of your teeth, too. The Swashbuckler is going to all but live in melee. It's superfluous. In 5e, it doesn't matter if you have heavy armor proficiency - if you go high-DEX and light weapons, you're in good shape. Where armor proficiency might make a difference is if you don't have the best light (if going DEX) or heavy (if going STR) armors on your list. He's not, you pick the one (or two if Champion) style(s) that fit the concept. it's better than never being able to be quick. A perfect fit for the lightning-fast rapier-wielding duelist. And, it's the Fighter's single most potent, most significant class feature. And feats may not even be available. Swashbucklers - like most genre heroes - tend to be pretty all-round gifted, though, so a couple more +2's'd be welcome. Not as emblematic as being great with a rapier, no. But really the only thing that's less than a good fit and not a matter of choosing something else that is. d10'd be better if you're going to melee a lot, but it's OK. Really, no one's that hard up for hps in 5e that 1/level on average is huge either way.Even light armor's a little off the classic Three Musketeer's look, but by D&D standards, sure. Not quite, perfect, no. Swashbucklers are really into dueling, where getting advantage isn't the sure thing it can be for a Rogue working with teammates. Nice for specific bits of daring-do, yes, not so good for going to town on the Six Fingered Man. The fighter is sadly lacking in skills compare to the Rogue, and the Swashbuckler does quite a bit of skillful stuff, so yeah, Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killa my father, prepare to die. We've got both. That a fighter could cover some, less skill-focused, more melee-focused swashbuckler concepts was never a reason not to do the Rogue archetype, that shaded towards the opposite emphasis. At bottom, the Swashbuckler is a character who crosses swords with the bad guy and wins. In D&D, that's modeled with melee DPR, and it's a big part the classes that get it. The fighter and rogue both fit the bill. If you're not all about dat damage, neither of those classes are such a good fit. It is. It misses how 5e gives you multiple paths to similar concepts, and asserts that one path to one concept in the ballpark obviates all others. It is ludicrous, but you don't have to pretend a DEX-based fighter can't buckle some swash to make that point. Quite the contrary. [/QUOTE]
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