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We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7306003" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>ESB: Luke whines constantly about his training. Can't focus. Fails to lift the X-wing and gives up. Runs off from his training to help his friends, ends up in failed confrontation with Vader. Loses badly.</p><p></p><p>RotJ: Luke sets up a plan to rescue Han that involves him showing up and demanding Han and trying to use the Force to get his way. It fails, badly (and predictably). He only manages to escape his failed plan with his friends due to a series of narrow victories and dumb luck (Boba had him dead to rights before Han accidentally hits his jetpack and causes a lucky malfunction). Dumb luck saves the day, not super-awesome and wise Luke. Later in the film, Luke realizes that his very presence on the Endor raid has caused Vader to sense him -- something fairly easily predicted. So, because of this Luke again wanders off from his friends on a wild hunch that he has to face Vader. Is brought before the Emperor, who easily goads him into attacking out of anger and fear. Only barely halts himself from destroying his father and then is about to be completely destroyed by the Emperor when <em>Vader </em>makes a choice to save him. </p><p></p><p>At no point in the OT is Luke ever super-awesome or show any real gift at making wise choices. I have no idea how you could possibly form this opinion of him from the OT. This idea about Luke is a fantasy, or entirely based on the not-canon EU post trilogy books.</p><p></p><p></p><p>We saw she was a skilled fighter before that, though, in multiple scenes. Is it so egregious that when the force finally blooms in her, one of the most powerful users ever known, that it would show itself in such a way? Let's be honest, Luke had never flown an X-wing, had never fired a photon torpedo, and yet hit the exhaust vent with and unfamiliar weapon while flying an unfamiliar fighter down a narrow trench he'd never seen before all while his eyes were closed. And you want to quibble about some lightsaber fight being unrealistic for a force user? I, again, have no idea what kind of myths you've built up in your head about the OT characters, but they were as super- and suddenly competent as the new cast.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The actor wasn't the problem in the prequels -- his dialog is pretty horrid by itself. Sure, the actor didn't make it sing, like Ewan did with Kenobi, but he had much, much less to work with and Lucas as a director. Lucas really, really needs someone at his shoulder at all times willing to say, "no, George, just no." ESB is the finest Star Wars movie, and, coincidentally, the one that Lucas had the <em>least </em>direct control over.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7306003, member: 16814"] ESB: Luke whines constantly about his training. Can't focus. Fails to lift the X-wing and gives up. Runs off from his training to help his friends, ends up in failed confrontation with Vader. Loses badly. RotJ: Luke sets up a plan to rescue Han that involves him showing up and demanding Han and trying to use the Force to get his way. It fails, badly (and predictably). He only manages to escape his failed plan with his friends due to a series of narrow victories and dumb luck (Boba had him dead to rights before Han accidentally hits his jetpack and causes a lucky malfunction). Dumb luck saves the day, not super-awesome and wise Luke. Later in the film, Luke realizes that his very presence on the Endor raid has caused Vader to sense him -- something fairly easily predicted. So, because of this Luke again wanders off from his friends on a wild hunch that he has to face Vader. Is brought before the Emperor, who easily goads him into attacking out of anger and fear. Only barely halts himself from destroying his father and then is about to be completely destroyed by the Emperor when [I]Vader [/I]makes a choice to save him. At no point in the OT is Luke ever super-awesome or show any real gift at making wise choices. I have no idea how you could possibly form this opinion of him from the OT. This idea about Luke is a fantasy, or entirely based on the not-canon EU post trilogy books. We saw she was a skilled fighter before that, though, in multiple scenes. Is it so egregious that when the force finally blooms in her, one of the most powerful users ever known, that it would show itself in such a way? Let's be honest, Luke had never flown an X-wing, had never fired a photon torpedo, and yet hit the exhaust vent with and unfamiliar weapon while flying an unfamiliar fighter down a narrow trench he'd never seen before all while his eyes were closed. And you want to quibble about some lightsaber fight being unrealistic for a force user? I, again, have no idea what kind of myths you've built up in your head about the OT characters, but they were as super- and suddenly competent as the new cast. The actor wasn't the problem in the prequels -- his dialog is pretty horrid by itself. Sure, the actor didn't make it sing, like Ewan did with Kenobi, but he had much, much less to work with and Lucas as a director. Lucas really, really needs someone at his shoulder at all times willing to say, "no, George, just no." ESB is the finest Star Wars movie, and, coincidentally, the one that Lucas had the [I]least [/I]direct control over. [/QUOTE]
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