Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Weakness by Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CruelSummerLord" data-source="post: 4555834" data-attributes="member: 48692"><p>Many of the issues I have with the systems have already been mentioned, but I'll throw in my two coppers worth: </p><p> </p><p>-First Edition's problem was, again, that the characters were too similar. There's not much to distinguish Flint Fireforge from Caramon Majere, for example, besides their ability scores and weapon types. The level limits for demihumans were too arbitrary and low. </p><p> </p><p>-Second Edition was neutered for Pat Pulling and the other mothers who couldn't be bothered to be responsible parents. No demons or devils, the bad guys always suffer humiliating defeats, etc. General institutional rot creeped in around this time too, with endless series of splatbooks strangling the market. Greyhawk was destroyed, violated by the Greyhawk Wars and <em>From The Ashes. </em></p><p> </p><p>-Third Edition, as frankthedm, hewligan, firesnakearies and others have pointed out, had it built into the rules that characters required a specific number and type of magical items to maintain play balance, something which blows chunks if you're one of those people who prefers a lower-magic game or story, like me. </p><p> </p><p>I also think there was a larger failing in 3E than simply with designs. Some respondents here have criticized the anyone-can-do-anything design mentality of 3E, and the subsequent focus on combat and combat powers above all else, with players focusing on "building" the perfect killing machine through min-maxing. Admittedly, I'm not a gamer and so what I'm thinking might have no base, but perhaps less of an emphasis on combat alone (as the CR system was so integral to the working of the game as a whole) led many players simply to focus on doing as much damage possible in a round. If there had been more emphasis on building a specific type of character in mind, whether it be a bookish, pacifistic priest (like I once generated for an online game with the DM's help), or a rogue who specializes in scouting and guerilla warfare, and designing towards that, rather than simply creating characters that could mow down the most enemies in a round, maybe it would have helped. I don't know. </p><p> </p><p>I haven't played Fourth Edition, so I won't otherwise criticize it save to say that in my view they commited a cardinal sin in dispensing with the Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms conventions, as pawsplay pointed out. Dragonborn, eladrin and tieflings have no place in conventional D&D. As optional or setting-specific races, sure, but if I were a DM I'd be more than a little upset at having to retcon my world to make room for these things, when gnomes and half-orcs are sitting on the sidelines. </p><p> </p><p>To be blunt, it's just not D&D without gnomes and half-orcs. That's my view, of course, but it's one I stick to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CruelSummerLord, post: 4555834, member: 48692"] Many of the issues I have with the systems have already been mentioned, but I'll throw in my two coppers worth: -First Edition's problem was, again, that the characters were too similar. There's not much to distinguish Flint Fireforge from Caramon Majere, for example, besides their ability scores and weapon types. The level limits for demihumans were too arbitrary and low. -Second Edition was neutered for Pat Pulling and the other mothers who couldn't be bothered to be responsible parents. No demons or devils, the bad guys always suffer humiliating defeats, etc. General institutional rot creeped in around this time too, with endless series of splatbooks strangling the market. Greyhawk was destroyed, violated by the Greyhawk Wars and [I]From The Ashes. [/I] -Third Edition, as frankthedm, hewligan, firesnakearies and others have pointed out, had it built into the rules that characters required a specific number and type of magical items to maintain play balance, something which blows chunks if you're one of those people who prefers a lower-magic game or story, like me. I also think there was a larger failing in 3E than simply with designs. Some respondents here have criticized the anyone-can-do-anything design mentality of 3E, and the subsequent focus on combat and combat powers above all else, with players focusing on "building" the perfect killing machine through min-maxing. Admittedly, I'm not a gamer and so what I'm thinking might have no base, but perhaps less of an emphasis on combat alone (as the CR system was so integral to the working of the game as a whole) led many players simply to focus on doing as much damage possible in a round. If there had been more emphasis on building a specific type of character in mind, whether it be a bookish, pacifistic priest (like I once generated for an online game with the DM's help), or a rogue who specializes in scouting and guerilla warfare, and designing towards that, rather than simply creating characters that could mow down the most enemies in a round, maybe it would have helped. I don't know. I haven't played Fourth Edition, so I won't otherwise criticize it save to say that in my view they commited a cardinal sin in dispensing with the Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms conventions, as pawsplay pointed out. Dragonborn, eladrin and tieflings have no place in conventional D&D. As optional or setting-specific races, sure, but if I were a DM I'd be more than a little upset at having to retcon my world to make room for these things, when gnomes and half-orcs are sitting on the sidelines. To be blunt, it's just not D&D without gnomes and half-orcs. That's my view, of course, but it's one I stick to. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Weakness by Edition
Top