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Weapons of Legacy: A Compendium of Magic Items
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<blockquote data-quote="MonkLover" data-source="post: 6742699" data-attributes="member: 82105"><p><strong>Originally posted by DarthPotater:</strong></p><p></p><p>I usually make compendium searches for initiative items, because all the builds (or near all) want initiative. Teleport not many times because is not so common. Maybe its only me, but i never remember the core-initiative items <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>Item level(s) can be usefull too</p><p></p><p>Lets rate 2 items:</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Shield of Fellowship (arms) </span></strong> Any shield. This is the only item that can be used for transfer THP. Mandatory for massive THP generators (battleraggers, valorous bards...).</p><p>[THP] [Level 15]</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Rushing Cleats (feet)</span></strong>: This is one of the cheapest way to get the second square push or slide on polearm momentum builds. Usually better than spend a feat.</p><p>[Fighter] [Level 7]</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by thespaceinvader:</strong></p><p></p><p>You're hard pressed to rate any Arms slot other than item bonuses to damage as sky blue. I'd limit the shield to blue, given that it's not THAT often you want to transfer temps around in my experience.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, there's enough other forced movement boosters that I wouldn't make the cleats higher than blue either.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Jugulator007:</strong></p><p></p><p>If I wasn't at work doing this on my phone, I'd write up staff of ruin and the periapt of cascading health.</p><p></p><p>Also, as more of a niche item, Jolting guard weapons, if you have some II or IR to make the monster miss (weakens as an OA)</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by thespaceinvader:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>At least 1 feat (battering Shield), at least 1 weapon (staggering, cf above). It depends on what combos you're trying to build, I suppose.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Armisael:</strong></p><p></p><p>Right. As I thought, this is kind of an issue if you're building more offensively because you surrender a minimum of 5 points of damage, and likely 7 compared to the MoS Lightning Weapon, which adds up quick. What I'm seeing is that the Staggering Weapon is pretty great...as a build lynchpin. But if you're picking it up for more general utility it is really, <em>really</em> terrible, because you need to stack up several resources to get the good times rolling. What I'm thinking right now is a blue rating for it, because it's not widely applicable enough to merit sky blue and not powerful enough for gold.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:</strong></p><p></p><p>Why don't you make a group password of some kind, similar to the collective, where say only 10-20 CharOp regulars who do this kind of thing a lot have access to it? That way, people can still post here to submit ratings, but that cuts out a lot of cutting and pasting for you...</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mand12:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This isn't how resistance works, fyi. Adding extra damage of a type does not change the type of the base damage. The power has the full set of keywords, yes, but that doesn't extend down all damage done in all circumstances by the power.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Armisael:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Tons of paranoia about it degenerating into a cluster****, mostly. Also, I'm not convinced that I, or anybody else, is qualified to designate those 10 or 20 CharOp regulars who can rate items because they are the One True Group of experts. I don't mind the C&P either, I just think it's a really bad idea to try to tackle a gargantuan project such as this alone. Hence, asking people to lend a hand with the submissions. <img src="http://community.wizards.com/sites/all/modules/custom/forest_site/smileys/wizards/razz.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by GelatinousOctahedron:</strong></p><p></p><p>It would probably be useful to include links to things like my weapliment guide and mellored's holy symbol guide. Maybe in your last post.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00"><strong>Symbol of the Champions Code</strong></span> [Paladin] [Radiant] Scaling boost to the radiant damage of both your challenge and sanction.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not actually saying that you won't do the ultimate ratings - at a certain point, you just change the password once most of the basic work is done. But there are thousands of magic items...</p><p></p><p>Also, you should consider stealing...um praising through copying...Soulliard's item thread, just so you have things to quickly edit. </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by DarthPotater:</strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900"><strong>Diamond Cincture (waist):</strong></span><span style="color: #ffcc00"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ffcc00"></span></strong>The default waist option. Only few builds want other waist item. Bonus to fortitude and free heal.</p><p>[Surgeless healing] [Level 10,20,30]</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Baldric of Shielding (waist)</span></strong>: Only for shielding swordmages (except Coronal Guards), but gain THP equal to the amount of damage you prevented with aegis, is nice. </p><p>[THP] [Shielding Swordmage] [Level 19]</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Armisael:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll think of it. Could be a good idea, actually!</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=12749]MwaO[/MENTION]: Hmm...probably worth a shot if things go slowly, though I disagree with a ton of the ratings there. There'd be lots to change...still, something to keep in mind.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>EDIT: The Diamond Cincture isn't surgeless anymore, DP...</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by svendj:</strong></p><p></p><p>DarthPotater already did this in some of his posts, but item level needs to be included somewhere in the description. </p><p></p><p>Great initiative, I'll definitely contribute.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by svendj:</strong></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Rending Weapon (Weapon):</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"></span>The more ways you have to increase your chances of scoring a critical hit, the more this becomes a mandatory weapon. Not only does this add 1d6 per plus to your critical hit damage, it <em>also </em>grants you a no action melee basic attack. There's nothing more a striker could ask for. Only drawback is that it only comes as an axe, but that's just more incentive to wield a Gouge.</p><p>Avenger, Striker. Level 4+</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Amulet of Life (Neck):</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"></span>Access to extra healing is never bad, especially if you get beat on a lot. Even better if you have a reliable way to generate saving throws so it doesn't compete with other neck slot items that grant saves. It shines on classes that have a lot of healing surges, because after a few fights surge management tends to become an issue. </p><p>Defender, Encounter. Level 5+</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Strikebacks (Hands, level 10, AV):</strong></span> If you have a serviceable melee basic attack and don't use your immediate action literally every round, there's no reason to skip this. Combats where these don't trigger are few and far between, so take these and be happy with them. Additional benefit: you finally don't have to remember those annoying Gauntlets of Blood anymore. </p><p>Encounter. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Acrobat Boots (Feet, level 2, PHB):</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"></span>Who likes to spend their move action standing up from prone? No-one, that's who. This lowly level 2 Feet slot item forever saves you from having to worry about this. This effect is also obtainable by taking the level 2 Acrobatics utility power Agile Recovery, but why spend a precious utility on it when these boots do the same?</p><p>At-will. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Boots of the Fencing Master (Feet, level 7, AV):</strong></span> This kind of mobility is usually reserved for Monks, so making it available as a Feet slot item is great. There are so many uses for a minor action shift 2 it's not even funny. And that's not mentioning the item bonus to AC and Reflex when you shift. One of the top heroic picks for Feet slot items.</p><p>Encounter. </p><p></p><p><strong>Butterfly Sandals (Feet, level 12, AV):</strong> There are few classes that benefit from a static bonus to fly speed, but for those who do this is a huge increase. If you have a way to consistently take to the skies, this lets you do a decent Neo-impression. </p><p>Common. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Helm of Able Defense (Head, level 14, AV2):</strong></span> The best way to survive is to not get hit. And this helm facilitates that, a lot. Defenders should be careful though not to become <em>too</em> hard to hit, because monsters will go looking for your allies otherwise. Oh, and a +1 item bonus to Will is just gravy. Part of the Panoply of the Shepherds of Ghest set. </p><p>Defender, set.</p><p></p><p><strong>Casque of Tactics (Head, level 4,14,24, AV):</strong> An easy way for everyone to boost their initiative a bit with an item bonus. Gets a lot better at higher tiers, where the difference really becomes noticeable. The daily power is deceptively powerful. If you're a Dex-striker and your controller or defender rolled badly on their initiative, this will let them set up the battlefield for you, after which you can come in and kill what's left. </p><p>Daily. </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Armisael:</strong></p><p></p><p>Good point about the template, I missed some fundamental things. Edited them in, should be better now.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Koshinuke:</strong></p><p></p><p>The biggest thing I was thinking about is that staggering weapons are legal in all games unless the DM specifically bans magic items, magic weapons, or staggering weapons themselves. They do not have the restriction of being from a particular world, like mark of storm is, which is required for that combination to run. While it is easier to add damage with a lightning weapon, the basic ability you are aiming for, sliding to prone, can be accomplished without using possibly restricted feats. Also, when you can prone a creature and slide them beyond charge range I think that is a good thing. You can do that starting mid paragon. </p><p></p><p>Pick up repel charge and you could prevent them from hitting you because you get charged, you get an OA, you slide them and prone before they get their attack.</p><p></p><p>You stated gold was the best item for a niche build. I could see you downgrading it to sky blue but it is at least sky blue because it is one of the best options for a flail using controller.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Armisael:</strong></p><p></p><p>Gold doesn't mean just 'best' item. It means 'unarguably best', to the point there's absolutely nothing to argue about it being best (so doing the best damage by two points for a specific build doesn't qualify you - doing the best damage by twenty does, for instance). There are control tools that a flail user wants besides Staggering, so it's not gold, and as mentioned before, it has a major opportunity cost, which keeps it from sky blue.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mand12:</strong></p><p></p><p>I'd argue that for things like items, the Gold category really has different meaning. It's not that Staggering Weapon is inarguably the best for flail fighters, but it is the <em>core</em> item in the builds that use it. Sure, I can build a fighter that doesn't use Staggering Weapon, but for the ones that do, it's absolutely critical. Is it really helpful to give a general, across-the-board rating? It's entirely possible that a general rating of Sky Blue for one item and a general rating of Black for another may be appropriate <em>in general</em>, but character builds aren't general. For my build, maybe that Black item is so stupidly crazy important that it becomes Gold, for that build. Alfsair Spear is a perfect example. As a spear enchantment, it's pretty meh. Nice, I guess, but no better or worse than dozens of other mediocre spear enchantments. In the hands of a Polearm Druid, though, it is <em>the</em><em> item</em> that makes the build, and you have absolutely zero choice in the matter. Which is the definition of Gold.</p><p></p><p>What I fear, though, is that in recognizing the semi-uselessness of the general rating, we just have a list of Gold items for popular builds. Which rapidly just turns into a list of our favorite items, which isn't the point of handbooks like this. If anyone's got an argument for why general ratings are helpful, I'd love to hear it. I'm at a loss right now. The only use I can think of is for the truly generalist items. Things like Iron Armbands of Power. There's no one specific build that they're the key linchpin of, they're just generally good for everyone who uses melee attacks. But that's a pretty slim set of the item base, and to be honest it's the most boring set. The interesting items, in my opinion the ones that you can make a build around, aren't the sort of things that lend themselves well to ratings. Either they're all going to be purple-black as a general rating, or they're all going to be Gold (or, if you're overly humble, sky blue). Neither of which is particularly useful.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Armisael:</strong></p><p></p><p>Build enabling items aren't going to have a gold rating. They'll have a purple rating, most likely. Gold isn't about being critically important, it's about being an overwhelmingly dominant choice. If the build is enabled by the item <em>but isn't the most powerful build by a mile</em>, then it's not gold.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MonkLover, post: 6742699, member: 82105"] [b]Originally posted by DarthPotater:[/b] I usually make compendium searches for initiative items, because all the builds (or near all) want initiative. Teleport not many times because is not so common. Maybe its only me, but i never remember the core-initiative items :D Item level(s) can be usefull too Lets rate 2 items: [COLOR=#ffcc00][b][/b][/COLOR][b][COLOR=#00ccff]Shield of Fellowship (arms) [/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR][/b][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR] Any shield. This is the only item that can be used for transfer THP. Mandatory for massive THP generators (battleraggers, valorous bards...). [THP] [Level 15] [COLOR=#ffcc00][b][/b][/COLOR][b][COLOR=#00ccff]Rushing Cleats (feet)[/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR][/b][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR]: This is one of the cheapest way to get the second square push or slide on polearm momentum builds. Usually better than spend a feat. [Fighter] [Level 7] [b]Originally posted by thespaceinvader:[/b] You're hard pressed to rate any Arms slot other than item bonuses to damage as sky blue. I'd limit the shield to blue, given that it's not THAT often you want to transfer temps around in my experience. Similarly, there's enough other forced movement boosters that I wouldn't make the cleats higher than blue either. [b]Originally posted by Jugulator007:[/b] If I wasn't at work doing this on my phone, I'd write up staff of ruin and the periapt of cascading health. Also, as more of a niche item, Jolting guard weapons, if you have some II or IR to make the monster miss (weakens as an OA) [b]Originally posted by thespaceinvader:[/b] At least 1 feat (battering Shield), at least 1 weapon (staggering, cf above). It depends on what combos you're trying to build, I suppose. [b]Originally posted by Armisael:[/b] Right. As I thought, this is kind of an issue if you're building more offensively because you surrender a minimum of 5 points of damage, and likely 7 compared to the MoS Lightning Weapon, which adds up quick. What I'm seeing is that the Staggering Weapon is pretty great...as a build lynchpin. But if you're picking it up for more general utility it is really, [i]really[/i] terrible, because you need to stack up several resources to get the good times rolling. What I'm thinking right now is a blue rating for it, because it's not widely applicable enough to merit sky blue and not powerful enough for gold. [b]Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:[/b] Why don't you make a group password of some kind, similar to the collective, where say only 10-20 CharOp regulars who do this kind of thing a lot have access to it? That way, people can still post here to submit ratings, but that cuts out a lot of cutting and pasting for you... [b]Originally posted by Mand12:[/b] This isn't how resistance works, fyi. Adding extra damage of a type does not change the type of the base damage. The power has the full set of keywords, yes, but that doesn't extend down all damage done in all circumstances by the power. [b]Originally posted by Armisael:[/b] Tons of paranoia about it degenerating into a cluster****, mostly. Also, I'm not convinced that I, or anybody else, is qualified to designate those 10 or 20 CharOp regulars who can rate items because they are the One True Group of experts. I don't mind the C&P either, I just think it's a really bad idea to try to tackle a gargantuan project such as this alone. Hence, asking people to lend a hand with the submissions. [IMG]http://community.wizards.com/sites/all/modules/custom/forest_site/smileys/wizards/razz.gif[/IMG] [b]Originally posted by GelatinousOctahedron:[/b] It would probably be useful to include links to things like my weapliment guide and mellored's holy symbol guide. Maybe in your last post. [COLOR=#ffcc00][b]Symbol of the Champions Code[/b][/COLOR] [Paladin] [Radiant] Scaling boost to the radiant damage of both your challenge and sanction. [b]Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:[/b] I'm not actually saying that you won't do the ultimate ratings - at a certain point, you just change the password once most of the basic work is done. But there are thousands of magic items... Also, you should consider stealing...um praising through copying...Soulliard's item thread, just so you have things to quickly edit. [b]Originally posted by DarthPotater:[/b] [COLOR=#ffcc00][b][/b][/COLOR][b][COLOR=#ff9900][b]Diamond Cincture (waist):[/b][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc00] [/COLOR][/b][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR]The default waist option. Only few builds want other waist item. Bonus to fortitude and free heal. [Surgeless healing] [Level 10,20,30] [COLOR=#ffcc00][b][/b][/COLOR][b][COLOR=#00ccff]Baldric of Shielding (waist)[/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR][/b][COLOR=#ffcc00][/COLOR]: Only for shielding swordmages (except Coronal Guards), but gain THP equal to the amount of damage you prevented with aegis, is nice. [THP] [Shielding Swordmage] [Level 19] [b]Originally posted by Armisael:[/b] I'll think of it. Could be a good idea, actually! --- [MENTION=12749]MwaO[/MENTION]: Hmm...probably worth a shot if things go slowly, though I disagree with a ton of the ratings there. There'd be lots to change...still, something to keep in mind. --- EDIT: The Diamond Cincture isn't surgeless anymore, DP... [b]Originally posted by svendj:[/b] DarthPotater already did this in some of his posts, but item level needs to be included somewhere in the description. Great initiative, I'll definitely contribute. [b]Originally posted by svendj:[/b] [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Rending Weapon (Weapon):[/b] [/COLOR]The more ways you have to increase your chances of scoring a critical hit, the more this becomes a mandatory weapon. Not only does this add 1d6 per plus to your critical hit damage, it [i]also [/i]grants you a no action melee basic attack. There's nothing more a striker could ask for. Only drawback is that it only comes as an axe, but that's just more incentive to wield a Gouge. Avenger, Striker. Level 4+ [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Amulet of Life (Neck):[/b] [/COLOR]Access to extra healing is never bad, especially if you get beat on a lot. Even better if you have a reliable way to generate saving throws so it doesn't compete with other neck slot items that grant saves. It shines on classes that have a lot of healing surges, because after a few fights surge management tends to become an issue. Defender, Encounter. Level 5+ [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Strikebacks (Hands, level 10, AV):[/b][/COLOR] If you have a serviceable melee basic attack and don't use your immediate action literally every round, there's no reason to skip this. Combats where these don't trigger are few and far between, so take these and be happy with them. Additional benefit: you finally don't have to remember those annoying Gauntlets of Blood anymore. Encounter. [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Acrobat Boots (Feet, level 2, PHB):[/b] [/COLOR]Who likes to spend their move action standing up from prone? No-one, that's who. This lowly level 2 Feet slot item forever saves you from having to worry about this. This effect is also obtainable by taking the level 2 Acrobatics utility power Agile Recovery, but why spend a precious utility on it when these boots do the same? At-will. [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Boots of the Fencing Master (Feet, level 7, AV):[/b][/COLOR] This kind of mobility is usually reserved for Monks, so making it available as a Feet slot item is great. There are so many uses for a minor action shift 2 it's not even funny. And that's not mentioning the item bonus to AC and Reflex when you shift. One of the top heroic picks for Feet slot items. Encounter. [b]Butterfly Sandals (Feet, level 12, AV):[/b] There are few classes that benefit from a static bonus to fly speed, but for those who do this is a huge increase. If you have a way to consistently take to the skies, this lets you do a decent Neo-impression. Common. [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Helm of Able Defense (Head, level 14, AV2):[/b][/COLOR] The best way to survive is to not get hit. And this helm facilitates that, a lot. Defenders should be careful though not to become [i]too[/i] hard to hit, because monsters will go looking for your allies otherwise. Oh, and a +1 item bonus to Will is just gravy. Part of the Panoply of the Shepherds of Ghest set. Defender, set. [b]Casque of Tactics (Head, level 4,14,24, AV):[/b] An easy way for everyone to boost their initiative a bit with an item bonus. Gets a lot better at higher tiers, where the difference really becomes noticeable. The daily power is deceptively powerful. If you're a Dex-striker and your controller or defender rolled badly on their initiative, this will let them set up the battlefield for you, after which you can come in and kill what's left. Daily. [b]Originally posted by Armisael:[/b] Good point about the template, I missed some fundamental things. Edited them in, should be better now. [b]Originally posted by Koshinuke:[/b] The biggest thing I was thinking about is that staggering weapons are legal in all games unless the DM specifically bans magic items, magic weapons, or staggering weapons themselves. They do not have the restriction of being from a particular world, like mark of storm is, which is required for that combination to run. While it is easier to add damage with a lightning weapon, the basic ability you are aiming for, sliding to prone, can be accomplished without using possibly restricted feats. Also, when you can prone a creature and slide them beyond charge range I think that is a good thing. You can do that starting mid paragon. Pick up repel charge and you could prevent them from hitting you because you get charged, you get an OA, you slide them and prone before they get their attack. You stated gold was the best item for a niche build. I could see you downgrading it to sky blue but it is at least sky blue because it is one of the best options for a flail using controller. [b]Originally posted by Armisael:[/b] Gold doesn't mean just 'best' item. It means 'unarguably best', to the point there's absolutely nothing to argue about it being best (so doing the best damage by two points for a specific build doesn't qualify you - doing the best damage by twenty does, for instance). There are control tools that a flail user wants besides Staggering, so it's not gold, and as mentioned before, it has a major opportunity cost, which keeps it from sky blue. [b]Originally posted by Mand12:[/b] I'd argue that for things like items, the Gold category really has different meaning. It's not that Staggering Weapon is inarguably the best for flail fighters, but it is the [i]core[/i] item in the builds that use it. Sure, I can build a fighter that doesn't use Staggering Weapon, but for the ones that do, it's absolutely critical. Is it really helpful to give a general, across-the-board rating? It's entirely possible that a general rating of Sky Blue for one item and a general rating of Black for another may be appropriate [i]in general[/i], but character builds aren't general. For my build, maybe that Black item is so stupidly crazy important that it becomes Gold, for that build. Alfsair Spear is a perfect example. As a spear enchantment, it's pretty meh. Nice, I guess, but no better or worse than dozens of other mediocre spear enchantments. In the hands of a Polearm Druid, though, it is [i]the[/i][i] item[/i] that makes the build, and you have absolutely zero choice in the matter. Which is the definition of Gold. What I fear, though, is that in recognizing the semi-uselessness of the general rating, we just have a list of Gold items for popular builds. Which rapidly just turns into a list of our favorite items, which isn't the point of handbooks like this. If anyone's got an argument for why general ratings are helpful, I'd love to hear it. I'm at a loss right now. The only use I can think of is for the truly generalist items. Things like Iron Armbands of Power. There's no one specific build that they're the key linchpin of, they're just generally good for everyone who uses melee attacks. But that's a pretty slim set of the item base, and to be honest it's the most boring set. The interesting items, in my opinion the ones that you can make a build around, aren't the sort of things that lend themselves well to ratings. Either they're all going to be purple-black as a general rating, or they're all going to be Gold (or, if you're overly humble, sky blue). Neither of which is particularly useful. [b]Originally posted by Armisael:[/b] Build enabling items aren't going to have a gold rating. They'll have a purple rating, most likely. Gold isn't about being critically important, it's about being an overwhelmingly dominant choice. If the build is enabled by the item [i]but isn't the most powerful build by a mile[/i], then it's not gold. [/QUOTE]
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Weapons of Legacy: A Compendium of Magic Items
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