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We're Finally Mainstream! Now What?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7713485" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Ok, what is the issue?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The hobby is table-top gaming. If they aren't playing the table-top game, then they aren't actually part of the hobby. This is not intended as slur. There is no shame in not having played D&D before. This is not necessarily exclusionary. They may be perfectly free and invited and welcome to join us in our hobby, and certainly I encourage DMs to take on new players. But as a matter of plain fact, they aren't part of the hobby until they have participated in it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course it is. But, it has nothing to do with the fact that watching a D&D movie does not mean you have actually played D&D, and I would feel someone was misrepresenting themselves to say that they had played D&D because they had watched that episode of 'That 70's Show' where the rival love interest DJ turns out to be short nerdy Dungeon Master in real life, or because they watched the 'Dungeons and Dragons' cartoon, or because they saw that episode of 'Community'. All that is well and good, but none of that as a matter of actual fact makes you a player of Role-playing games. It may make you a member of fans of TV, or fans of fantasy, or something else, but it does not in fact make you a member of the hobby as a matter of actual and objective fact.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No one is gatekeeper of the hobby or trying to set up one!!! No one has to stand by and determine whether you are qualified to be a member of the hobby. You either have actually played D&D, or you have not. If you have not actually played D&D, then you may want to be part of the hobby (this is me from age 8 to age 9 before I joined my first group), but you have not yet in the hobby. I may have been 9 at the time, but I knew better than to assert I'd played D&D and had to be respected as a member of the hobby just because I owned the books and had colored the official AD&D coloring book. </p><p></p><p>You can own a football, you can watch football on TV every Sunday. You can know all the rules of the game. But unless you have actually played the game in some fashion, you aren't a player of football. And arguably, if you haven't played it in pads, I wouldn't quibble with the idea that you haven't played it for real and your qualifications as a football player are limited.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To be honest, that sort of rant sounds literally insane to me. I don't even understand this 'issue'. There isn't a value judgment involved in this at all. But breaking it down somewhat...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no ranking here. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. I know I'm autistic and all, but really, is this actually a thing? And if it is actually a thing, why in the world do you let it bother you? Why in the world should you care? I have no interest in this 'fan pissing contest' (as you've described) thing that you and several others in the thread seem to have gotten completely derailed over. I am other baffled why you'd even play that game. If some one says to you, "If you haven't read the Star Wars novels, then you aren't as big of a fan as I am.", why aren't you completely content to agree? Does it hurt you any to say, "Yeah, totally. I admit that I'm not that interested in the extended universe. But I do really love the movies." Why is this even a thing? Can't you just objectively assess that if you haven't played the Star Wars RPG, you are not a player of the Star Wars RPG? Why is having played the Star Wars RPG such a badge of honor that you would be willing to dissemble about your level of experience with it or boast about or engrandize your own experience? Are other people's opinions of you that important, that you aren't content with reality? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, of course not. But, that's not what is at stake. It does mean that they are not (currently) football players, and it is certainly true that no matter how you spin it, as a matter of objective fact having played Madden NFL 17 doesn't make you a football player. It makes you player of a sports derived football game. And, frankly, I would not feel wrong in thinking someone has left the bounds of reason so far behind, that if they asserted to me that having played Madden NFL 17 made them a football player, that they were insane and needed some degree of protection from their own delusional mindset. I recently asked someone, "Did you play football?" That person answered in the affirmative, but if they had meant actually, "Well, I played Madden NFL 17.", I would have thought them stupid, a braggart or insane, because as a matter of objective fact they had not played football. Likewise, when they asked me, "Did you play soccer?", I understood that they obviously weren't asking as to whether I'd played a video game, but whether I had in fact played soccer and organized soccer in particular. </p><p></p><p>I would be insane to be jealous of their superior experience in football, just as they would be insane to be jealous of my superior experience in soccer. Those are just matters of fact, and certainly neither of us were players of such great skill and reknown that we would be justified in boasting of our experience. Then again, I was working in a homeless shelter one time, and there was this big guy watching a football game on the TV, so to be social I asked him, "Did you play football?" and he said, "Yes.", and I said, "Oh yeah, who did you play for?", and he said, "The Cleveland Browns." Not bragging. Just a matter of factual record. Then again, maybe having played for the Browns isn't something worthy of bragging about.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Heck yes they are. Do you have any idea how much money those guys in the stands paid to watch the game? The NFL has ever right and reason to think that they are more important than a casual viewer like myself, and an NFL season ticket holder that flies out to the away games probably has a legitimate reason for thinking that the NFL should care more about his opinions than they do mine.</p><p></p><p>Why is this hard? I don't get it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7713485, member: 4937"] Ok, what is the issue? The hobby is table-top gaming. If they aren't playing the table-top game, then they aren't actually part of the hobby. This is not intended as slur. There is no shame in not having played D&D before. This is not necessarily exclusionary. They may be perfectly free and invited and welcome to join us in our hobby, and certainly I encourage DMs to take on new players. But as a matter of plain fact, they aren't part of the hobby until they have participated in it. Of course it is. But, it has nothing to do with the fact that watching a D&D movie does not mean you have actually played D&D, and I would feel someone was misrepresenting themselves to say that they had played D&D because they had watched that episode of 'That 70's Show' where the rival love interest DJ turns out to be short nerdy Dungeon Master in real life, or because they watched the 'Dungeons and Dragons' cartoon, or because they saw that episode of 'Community'. All that is well and good, but none of that as a matter of actual fact makes you a player of Role-playing games. It may make you a member of fans of TV, or fans of fantasy, or something else, but it does not in fact make you a member of the hobby as a matter of actual and objective fact. No one is gatekeeper of the hobby or trying to set up one!!! No one has to stand by and determine whether you are qualified to be a member of the hobby. You either have actually played D&D, or you have not. If you have not actually played D&D, then you may want to be part of the hobby (this is me from age 8 to age 9 before I joined my first group), but you have not yet in the hobby. I may have been 9 at the time, but I knew better than to assert I'd played D&D and had to be respected as a member of the hobby just because I owned the books and had colored the official AD&D coloring book. You can own a football, you can watch football on TV every Sunday. You can know all the rules of the game. But unless you have actually played the game in some fashion, you aren't a player of football. And arguably, if you haven't played it in pads, I wouldn't quibble with the idea that you haven't played it for real and your qualifications as a football player are limited. To be honest, that sort of rant sounds literally insane to me. I don't even understand this 'issue'. There isn't a value judgment involved in this at all. But breaking it down somewhat... There is no ranking here. It has nothing to do with bragging rights. I know I'm autistic and all, but really, is this actually a thing? And if it is actually a thing, why in the world do you let it bother you? Why in the world should you care? I have no interest in this 'fan pissing contest' (as you've described) thing that you and several others in the thread seem to have gotten completely derailed over. I am other baffled why you'd even play that game. If some one says to you, "If you haven't read the Star Wars novels, then you aren't as big of a fan as I am.", why aren't you completely content to agree? Does it hurt you any to say, "Yeah, totally. I admit that I'm not that interested in the extended universe. But I do really love the movies." Why is this even a thing? Can't you just objectively assess that if you haven't played the Star Wars RPG, you are not a player of the Star Wars RPG? Why is having played the Star Wars RPG such a badge of honor that you would be willing to dissemble about your level of experience with it or boast about or engrandize your own experience? Are other people's opinions of you that important, that you aren't content with reality? No, of course not. But, that's not what is at stake. It does mean that they are not (currently) football players, and it is certainly true that no matter how you spin it, as a matter of objective fact having played Madden NFL 17 doesn't make you a football player. It makes you player of a sports derived football game. And, frankly, I would not feel wrong in thinking someone has left the bounds of reason so far behind, that if they asserted to me that having played Madden NFL 17 made them a football player, that they were insane and needed some degree of protection from their own delusional mindset. I recently asked someone, "Did you play football?" That person answered in the affirmative, but if they had meant actually, "Well, I played Madden NFL 17.", I would have thought them stupid, a braggart or insane, because as a matter of objective fact they had not played football. Likewise, when they asked me, "Did you play soccer?", I understood that they obviously weren't asking as to whether I'd played a video game, but whether I had in fact played soccer and organized soccer in particular. I would be insane to be jealous of their superior experience in football, just as they would be insane to be jealous of my superior experience in soccer. Those are just matters of fact, and certainly neither of us were players of such great skill and reknown that we would be justified in boasting of our experience. Then again, I was working in a homeless shelter one time, and there was this big guy watching a football game on the TV, so to be social I asked him, "Did you play football?" and he said, "Yes.", and I said, "Oh yeah, who did you play for?", and he said, "The Cleveland Browns." Not bragging. Just a matter of factual record. Then again, maybe having played for the Browns isn't something worthy of bragging about. Heck yes they are. Do you have any idea how much money those guys in the stands paid to watch the game? The NFL has ever right and reason to think that they are more important than a casual viewer like myself, and an NFL season ticket holder that flies out to the away games probably has a legitimate reason for thinking that the NFL should care more about his opinions than they do mine. Why is this hard? I don't get it. [/QUOTE]
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