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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7556292" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>It is a minor but hardly mortal sin for the DM to provide only one interesting thing for the players to do. It is a mortal sin for the DM to provide nothing to do.</p><p></p><p>It is not a sin for a player to be uninterested in the story or opportunities the DM has provided to avail himself of, though perhaps the player and the DM ought to have talked about this a bit more before hand. It is not a sin for a DM and a player to not to be able to come together and agree on a campaign style that they both enjoy. It might be a minor tragedy that they can't come to an agreement, but it's not anyone's fault they have different preferred aesthetics of play.</p><p></p><p>I fully agree with you though that there is point were a player is fully abusing his agency as player to draw spot light on himself to the detriment of the fun of the group. There is always a player it seems that simply doesn't play well with others and seems to be playing a non-social game all by himself, metaphorically off in his own corner, and often as not seeming to be mostly motivated with disrupting the game everyone else is playing. There is one in just about every group and I have never understood this player at all nor what motivates them. It always seems to me that they consistently make choices that go against even their own presume preferred aesthetic of play, which is presumably something like self-expression and self-validation. I think that they are always trying to create a shining moment of awesome for themselves, but objectively, they act like their motivation, the thing that gives them joy, is having other players upset with them and they end up creating fewer moments where they shine than players with more patience.</p><p></p><p>Invariably, they go through more characters than the rest of the party combined, because they are always going off alone and poking the bear. They are that guy that wants to solo the killer bunny. They are that guy that charges into the next room all alone, and either pulls the lever or picks up the foozle. Literally, they will lose several characters over the course of the campaign where the rest of the party in character doesn't even know how they died, because they do such a good job of doing their own thing that no one ever finds the body. Invariably, they are the guy that manages to lose their character in a way that they can't even be raised from the dead, because they are just too dead. Their character is the one that always ends up incinerated, dissolved, disintegrated, or shunted through a portal to some far and unhappy dimension because they had to leap before they looked and no one was around to help prevent the catastrophe. I simply don't get it. They are like kids addicted to bitter rather than sweet. It's not even like they ate the Tide Pod and killed themself because it looked like candy. These are people who will ignore the candy to go munch on the contents of the box labelled rat poison even after someone in the group uses Detect Poison to prove that it is poisonous.</p><p></p><p>If anyone can give me insight into what is going on in these people's minds, I'd appreciate it, because its one of the few great unsolved mysteries I still face as a DM. Generally speaking, you aren't dealing with an unintelligent person. It's not like they are people who simply vastly overestimate how clever they are, because they aren't actually clever. Quite often they are reasonably clever persons, but like the Chimpanzee that can't do math when it involves food, because "Food!", there is something in their personality that repeatedly makes them act stupid when they are RPing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7556292, member: 4937"] It is a minor but hardly mortal sin for the DM to provide only one interesting thing for the players to do. It is a mortal sin for the DM to provide nothing to do. It is not a sin for a player to be uninterested in the story or opportunities the DM has provided to avail himself of, though perhaps the player and the DM ought to have talked about this a bit more before hand. It is not a sin for a DM and a player to not to be able to come together and agree on a campaign style that they both enjoy. It might be a minor tragedy that they can't come to an agreement, but it's not anyone's fault they have different preferred aesthetics of play. I fully agree with you though that there is point were a player is fully abusing his agency as player to draw spot light on himself to the detriment of the fun of the group. There is always a player it seems that simply doesn't play well with others and seems to be playing a non-social game all by himself, metaphorically off in his own corner, and often as not seeming to be mostly motivated with disrupting the game everyone else is playing. There is one in just about every group and I have never understood this player at all nor what motivates them. It always seems to me that they consistently make choices that go against even their own presume preferred aesthetic of play, which is presumably something like self-expression and self-validation. I think that they are always trying to create a shining moment of awesome for themselves, but objectively, they act like their motivation, the thing that gives them joy, is having other players upset with them and they end up creating fewer moments where they shine than players with more patience. Invariably, they go through more characters than the rest of the party combined, because they are always going off alone and poking the bear. They are that guy that wants to solo the killer bunny. They are that guy that charges into the next room all alone, and either pulls the lever or picks up the foozle. Literally, they will lose several characters over the course of the campaign where the rest of the party in character doesn't even know how they died, because they do such a good job of doing their own thing that no one ever finds the body. Invariably, they are the guy that manages to lose their character in a way that they can't even be raised from the dead, because they are just too dead. Their character is the one that always ends up incinerated, dissolved, disintegrated, or shunted through a portal to some far and unhappy dimension because they had to leap before they looked and no one was around to help prevent the catastrophe. I simply don't get it. They are like kids addicted to bitter rather than sweet. It's not even like they ate the Tide Pod and killed themself because it looked like candy. These are people who will ignore the candy to go munch on the contents of the box labelled rat poison even after someone in the group uses Detect Poison to prove that it is poisonous. If anyone can give me insight into what is going on in these people's minds, I'd appreciate it, because its one of the few great unsolved mysteries I still face as a DM. Generally speaking, you aren't dealing with an unintelligent person. It's not like they are people who simply vastly overestimate how clever they are, because they aren't actually clever. Quite often they are reasonably clever persons, but like the Chimpanzee that can't do math when it involves food, because "Food!", there is something in their personality that repeatedly makes them act stupid when they are RPing. [/QUOTE]
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